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Boot Stripes & Bottom Paint

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solvasoncc
1st Mate

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USA
46 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/05/2021 : 10:23:47

Well its come time to refresh the boat. I am swapping out the vinyl stripes and redoing the bottom. One issue that I would like to remedy is bottom paint being taken too high and covering the boot stripe. Can anyone tell me the width of the boot stripe? Recommendations on bottom paint? I had Micron CSC, but it only performed so-so in Texas freshwater lakes. Plus it wasn't as smooth as I would like. Thinking of a harder hybrid bottom this go around. Perhaps Pettit Vivid or one of the Interlux Bottomkotes. Thoughts?

Charles

Catalina 250 WK SR Hull #475
College Station, TX

Edited by - solvasoncc on 02/05/2021 10:30:00

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2021 : 13:55:05

Antifouling paints protect against two concerns - barnacles and algae growth. In fresh water, the only reason to use antifouling paint is to deter algae. If the antifouling paint you use doesn't deter algae (some don't), then there's no reason to use antifouling paint at all. Also, if you scrub your bottom regularly, there's no reason to use antifouling paint at all.

There are good reasons for not applying antifouling paint unnecessarily. (1) it's expensive. (2) it's tiresome and messy (3) After several layers accumulate, you'll eventually have to strip it all off, and that's expensive, tiresome and messy.

I suggest that, instead of adding more layers to the existing paint, you start removing a little of it each year. Power wash it at the end of the season. Then, in the spring, instead of painting it, spend the same amount of time sanding it down overall, not just in one area. After 2-3 seasons you'll have removed much of the old paint. During the summers, scrub it every 2-3 weeks with 3M or Scotch Brite scrub pads to keep it clean.

When you have sanded it down to the last layer or two, you could start applying one coat each year of West Marine's PCA Gold Premium Ablative Antifouling Paint. It's a soft ablative paint, and most of it will ablate away in one year, so you won't accumulate much in the future. It has slime resistance, to prevent algae growth. Simply sailing the boat keeps the bottom clean. I even race my boat occasionally without scrubbing it, and do well, but if the competition is strong, I'll give it a quick scrub before a race. West usually has a very good sale price on that paint each spring.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

kjk
1st Mate

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USA
91 Posts

Response Posted - 02/05/2021 : 15:26:08

Are you replacing your boot stripe?

Kevin J. Kiely
Rockport, MA
1999WK
Hull # 407

solvasoncc
1st Mate

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USA
46 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2021 : 07:34:02

Thank you for the suggestions! I must add that everyone's experience is different based on where they sail. For me, forgoing bottom paint and wiping the boat down is not enough. I ran a test of gelcoat vs. Micron CSC in Lake Somerville from Jun-Oct of this year. The slime build up on the gelcoat was atrocious, 1/2-in thick, hard and required scraping. Wiping each time in the water was not enough. The CSC was only a little fuzzy, maybe a 1/8-in thick. It never got really bad, but I found I had to scrape it too much (I also like to race occasionally). Unfortunately, scraping the ablative Micron CSC was taking it off too quickly.

We travel around to hill country as well, and there you will find zebra mussels. Nasty little devils. We also travel to the coast occasionally (The Catalina 250 is a great little mobile vacation home), so barnacles on bottom of the wing keel (hard to paint) are a trouble spot.

Based on these observations, I thought it best to go hybrid (a hard bottom paint with a slime agent that also wears away like an ablative). But, I like your idea as well. Maybe pull it and paint it each winter. 'Tis the season for boat work.

My question about the boot stripe is because the previous bottom paint is way, way, way too high, so much so it partially covered up the boot stripe. I would like to put it back to the original design, but with it partially covered up I can't figure out how wide its supposed to be. To make it worse, because the paint was so far out of the water, none of has worn away like the bottom, so I am left with a thick bathtub ring of bottom paint around the boat. Suggestions on how to remove it would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Charles

Catalina 250 WK SR Hull #475
College Station, TX

Edited by - solvasoncc on 02/08/2021 15:40:27

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 02/08/2021 : 09:25:43

You're right Charles that all fresh water lakes are not alike. Some are clean, clear and constantly moving. Others are slow moving or stagnant or have farm fertilizers or manure flowing into them from surrounding farms. But that really doesn't change my advice.

First, if your bottom paint is not smooth, it could be for a variety of reasons. Perhaps the PO didn't clean and sand it before he applied each coat. The solvent in bottom paint is quick to evaporate, leaving the paint too thick. I always put the lid on the can after each time I fill my roller tray, and, when the paint begins to be too thick, I add the recommended solvent to thin it. Also, I often see owners applying paint with rollers that are too thick. I use the smoothest rollers I can find and apply a thin coat of paint. You should also use rollers with either phenolic or plastic cores. Bottom paint solvents make cardboard cores fall apart. If a single coat looks too thin when you haul out at the end of the season, you can put on two coats next spring. For me, that often means I can get a second season out of it without repainting it.

Paint accumulates much faster along the waterline. When you see it getting too thick, it's good to spend extra time thinning it down with your sander.

Antifouling paint is much like house paint. After it becomes old and thick with too many layers, it begins to peel, and you can only make it smooth again by stripping it off. I did that on my C25 and I also did it on my C&C 35, and it's a horrible job. If you're smart, you'll only apply one thin coat of a good quality ablative each year. One coat lasts one season for me on the Chesapeake Bay. In the spring I wash the bottom and apply one fresh coat. My concern with any hard finish paint is that, when it must be removed, it's much harder to remove than a soft finish. Also, softer finish paints ablate much faster than hard finish paints, and thus don't accumulate as fast.

In choosing an antifouling paint, you should think about how easy or hard it will be to maintain and eventually remove when that time comes.

I only sand the waterline every few years when it gets too thick. I stripped my bottom 12-14 years ago, and the bottom is still smooth and fast enough for club racing.

PCA Gold Premium Ablative Antifouling Paint is West Marine's best quality bottom paint. It's made for West by Petit. When on sale, it's much cheaper than Interlux or Petit paints, and has served me very well. It's good in fresh or salt water and you can haul out and re-launch without losing it's antifouling properties.

I don't have any personal experience with Petit Vivid, but a friend uses it and likes it.

It's not entirely accurate to say you should "scrub" a soft ablative paint. You really shouldn't be so aggressive with it. Dirt and algae don't adhere very strongly to it, and you can wipe it off with a few strokes of a sponge. When you start wiping it, the surface will feel slippery (from the slime), and when it's clean, the surface will feel more "squeaky."

Antifouling paint can be scraped off with a putty knife. Just be careful not to gouge the gelcoat. You can scrape enough of it at the boot stripe to see how wide the boot stripe is.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 02/08/2021 09:27:58

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5851 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2021 : 08:55:00

quote:
Originally posted by solvasoncc

The CSC was only a little fuzzy, maybe a 1/8-in thick. It never got really bad, but I found I had to scrape it too much (I also like to race occasionally). Unfortunately, scraping the ablative Micron CSC was taking it off too quickly.

I've never found any slime resistant paint to be as ineffective as you describe, and I have sailed my boat in some of the most slime-prone waters. That being the case, I have to ask why you're having such a problem with slime. I think you answered that question in your last sentence. I think you're scraping away the slime resistance.

Soft ablative paints can be scraped off with a putty knife, especially when they're in the water. Algae can be removed from ablative paint containing an algaecide without using any kind of scraper. A putty knife or scraper should only be used when you want to remove the paint. To remove dirt and algae, you can usually wipe the surface with a sponge. When you begin wiping it, the surface will feel slimy. When the slime is gone, that slimy feel will be gone and the surface will feel "squeaky."

I used Micron CSC for 10-15 years, and, to remove algae I used either a sponge to wipe it down, or a Scotch Brite or similar plastic scrubber. You should never have to scrub hard, because the ablative paint prevents slime or barnacles from firmly attaching themselves.

The only time I ever used anything more aggressive on Micron CSC was once when I hauled the boat out to take it to a national regatta. I used the finest sandpaper I could find to give it the lightest sanding possible, just to ensure that the surface was clean and smooth. The sandpaper was so fine that it didn't really remove any significant amount of paint. It just polished the surface.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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4275 Posts

Response Posted - 02/11/2021 : 20:02:07

I kept my SeaRay in the water at Lake Conroe for a couple of months back in the early �90�s before I got a trailer built. It had no paint on it.

With summer water temperatures in the high �80�s I had to scrub the bottom EVERY weekend to keep the slime at bay. Even though I scrubbed every weekend over the 2 month period a thin layer of a black type of algae (or some other marine growth) built up and was impossible to get off the bottom. It wasn�t a solid layer, it looked like varicose veins on a persons legs. Stuff was hard and could not be scrubbed off. Once I got the boat on the trailer it took a 3000 psi pressure washer to get it off.

If I remember correctly, a lot of the racers on the lakes in the Texas Hill Country use a hard paint and just do a quick scrub before races. Some travel to various lakes or the coast so having the hard paint keeps it from wearing off when trailering whereas ablative may tend to wear off quicker if doing much traveling.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

solvasoncc
1st Mate

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USA
46 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2021 : 07:37:57

quote:
Originally posted by GaryB

I kept my SeaRay in the water at Lake Conroe for a couple of months back in the early �90�s before I got a trailer built. It had no paint on it.

With summer water temperatures in the high �80�s I had to scrub the bottom EVERY weekend to keep the slime at bay. Even though I scrubbed every weekend over the 2 month period a thin layer of a black type of algae (or some other marine growth) built up and was impossible to get off the bottom. It wasn�t a solid layer, it looked like varicose veins on a persons legs. Stuff was hard and could not be scrubbed off. Once I got the boat on the trailer it took a 3000 psi pressure washer to get it off.

If I remember correctly, a lot of the racers on the lakes in the Texas Hill Country use a hard paint and just do a quick scrub before races. Some travel to various lakes or the coast so having the hard paint keeps it from wearing off when trailering whereas ablative may tend to wear off quicker if doing much traveling.

Exactly. A hard-ish, veiny black algae. I tried all manner of scrub pads, but it just wasn't enough to get it off. Perhaps I was waiting too long between cleanings. But weekly is more time than I am able to give. Based on my experience with it, I am going to go with either a hybrid (if I decide to store it on a trailer), or a super soft ablative to try to get more of the expected behavior. I am not sure our boats move fast enough through the water for CSC to be effective in these lakes. Thanks for the feedback.

Charles

Catalina 250 WK SR Hull #475
College Station, TX

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2269 Posts

Response Posted - 02/12/2021 : 07:53:51

A couple quick comments:

Be very careful to pick a paint that actually has an algicide in it. The most common algicide, Irgarol 1051, was pulled off the US market several years ago because BASF had EPA licensing problems. During that time, companies were putting out "enhanced" versions of their paint that would have 47% copper instead of 40%, but they were really just trying to give you something to compensate for the loss of Irgarol. Or course, copper is really only effective against hard growth, and does nothing for slime. Some others were adding PTFE particles, claiming that would decrease adhesion of slime, but without any real data to prove it.

Irgarol is available again in the US, and is starting to appear on the market, but you need to carefully read the labels of any paint you buy. Even when it's present, its effectiveness only lasts for about 6 months. This has been documented by testing publications, but was also my personal experience when I had my boat in freshwater. If you haul out annually, it's best to plan for a fresh coat of paint every year and not try to get 2 years out of it. That's what I do now - I've switched to one coat every spring instead of two coats every two years. Knowing this, I've also switched to single season ablative paint for $90/gallon instead of two season paint for $300/gallon. The single season paint is much softer (because it's not meant to last 2 years), and actually more effective during that one year than the 2 season paint was.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

solvasoncc
1st Mate

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USA
46 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2021 : 14:06:23

quote:
Be very careful to pick a paint that actually has an algicide in it

I have confirmed that my CSC didn't have the slime agent in it and that was probably the reason for my woe. What single season Irgarol paint did you find? I am leaning toward Pettit Ultima SR 40/60 at the moment, but that is multi season. Thanks.

Also, does anyone have an idea of how wide the boot stripe is? It looks like I have to sand the 6" bathtub ring of bottom paint off (supply chain issue for getting the correct stripper), so I will probably sand right through it and have to repaint it. Thanks.

Charles

Catalina 250 WK SR Hull #475
College Station, TX

Edited by - solvasoncc on 02/24/2021 12:09:01

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2269 Posts

Response Posted - 02/23/2021 : 16:39:27

quote:
Originally posted by solvasoncc

quote:
Be very careful to pick a paint that actually has an algicide in it

I have confirmed that my CSC didn't have the slime agent in it and that was probably the reason for my woe. What single season Irgarol paint did you find? I am leaning toward Pettit Ultimate SR 40/60 at the moment, but that is multi season. Thanks.

Also, does anyone have an idea of how wide the boot stripe is? It looks like I have to sand the 6" bathtub ring of bottom paint off (supply chain issue for getting the correct stripper), so I will probably sand right through it and have to repaint it. Thanks.

My current bottom paint has no algicide. After selling my C250 and buying a C34MkII in 2016 I moved from fresh water to brackish water, where hard growth was more of a concern than slime. At about the same time, Irgarol was pulled off the market, and since it was mid-June I went with the much cheaper paint since I knew that even the expensive paints lacked Irgarol anyway. The cheap paint worked much better than I expected (absolutely no hard growth on any areas with bottom paint), and I didn't miss the Irgarol, so I stuck with the cheaper paint every year since, and just put a fresh coat on every year:

https://www.wholesalemarine.com/interlux-pro-guard-ablative-antifouling.html

I believe that the C250 boot stripe gets wider toward the aft end of the boat. There is no single value for its width.

Also note that bottom paint needs to be higher in freshwater than salt water because the boat rides lower. How much stuff you have in the boat is also important. My C250 had no "white stripe" between the bottom paint and the boot stripe because it was a freshwater boat. Before you work too hard removing the bottom paint, make sure to verify its natural water line.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - TakeFive on 02/24/2021 10:10:50

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5851 Posts

Response Posted - 02/24/2021 : 10:20:43

I'd advise against sanding the paint off the stripe, because sanding will damage the gelcoat. The best way to strip it off is by using a paint stripper that is formulated to strip paint from fiberglass. Jamestown Distributors sells a couple different brands. Here's a link. https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/product/product-detail/802

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Edited by - Steve Milby on 02/24/2021 10:29:25

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