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Stern rail gate

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Jon Johnson
Deckhand

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1 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/28/2024 : 17:51:56

I am considering cutting out the section of stern rail above the traveller and installing a gate to make reboarding while swimming easier. Has any one done this ? How has it left the stability of the rail even when gate is in place? I plan to use a sold piece of SS tube to make the gate.
Thanks

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5877 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2024 : 18:29:33

I've never heard of it being tried before, but I suspect it's strength depends largely on being a complete unit. If you cut it, I doubt that it will be able to take the stress when you grab hold of it to pull yourself into the cockpit. Try pulling on it as you would if you were climbing into the boat and you'll see that it flexes a little even when it's a one piece unit. The fiberglass under each leg is strong enough to withstand the loads on the rail as a single unit. Cutting the rail will allow the legs to twist, and I'm not sure the fiberglass can tolerate it. If the experiment fails, I'm not sure a skilled ss welder could put it back together without it looking cobbled up, and, if the fiberglass is damaged, repairing it would be a big job.

On my boat, I stepped from the top rung of the ladder to the top of the transom and then stepped over the rail into the cockpit.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

redcat
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2024 : 20:42:06

I just completed a stern pulpit gate modification last week, after two years of contemplation, design and redesign, and finally getting up the gumption to make the cuts. Many of our friends/guests struggle with getting over the stern rail from the swim ladder, so in my retirement I decided to do something about it.

Basically, I cut away the top rail from the starboard transom stanchion, and bisected the starboard quarter top rail, installing an additional stanchion at that point (just in front of the vent cowl) with a 90 degree elbow (with anchor eye). I used a similar elbow on the transom stanchion. I put T-fittings on each stanchion about 6-7 inches above the gunnel/transom and cut down the cut-out top railing to fit between the two stanchions to provide support, then put a lifeline wire with pelican hook between the elbows. The tricky part was to account for the angle of the gunnel and the top rail for the starboard stanchion, which was about 7 degrees. I looked into bending the new stanchion, but that was problematic (or expensive) for various reasons. I ended up fabricating a wedge of HDPE which did the trick. I haven�t had it out for sea trials, but it seems rock solid as I get in and out of the boat in my shop. While I've been a member for quite a while, this is my first post, and I don't know how (or if) I will be able to post photos, but I'll work on it.

quote:
Originally posted by Jon Johnson

I am considering cutting out the section of stern rail above the traveller and installing a gate to make reboarding while swimming easier. Has any one done this ? How has it left the stability of the rail even when gate is in place? I plan to use a sold piece of SS tube to make the gate.
Thanks

Encore!
1978 SR-SK

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5877 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2024 : 05:45:03

It sounds like you gave considerable thought to it. Photos would be great. Here's a link to help you post photos. https://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=25478&SearchTerms=how,to,post,photos

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5296 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2024 : 06:06:30

When I bought Passage, the stern pulpit was cut into two halves: port side and starboard side, with no gate or connector between the two. Since the original job was done so neatly and professionally, I had no idea that other C-25s had a continuous rail between the two. For most practical purposes like leaning against the rail, even leaning over the rail to lift the engine, or hanging on from below, the two separate halves worked fine and retained their shape.

It was only during a strong early autumn nor�easter that I learned of the lack of 100% rigidity.
The boat was on the slip at the dock, and strong winds had pushed laterally on the beam, and heeled the boat well over to the side. Because I was on the outside of the tee-end slip on this dock that pointed northeast, Passage was directly exposed to both wind and waves. The waves caused the boat and the dock to heave up and down relative to one another, and so eventually, the starboard side rail happened to get caught underneath the lip of the dock when the boat was heeled, and the full weight of the keel and the weight of the dock coming down on the rail twisted it into a pretzel. The stanchions held into the gunwales, but the upright tubes both bent over to about 60 or 70�, especially the more forward one. The tube was also kinked, so there was no way to simply bend it back into shape.

I searched awhile for a tube unbender (person) or a replacement stern pulpit in my area - it was not going well. I got several �Nope, can�t be fixed� responses.

Then, someone from this forum told me that he had a spare one to sell me (miraculously). We sealed the deal, however, they were in Pennsylvania and I was in Connecticut. How do you ship a huge set of monkeybars several hundred miles? Well, we were both up for a long car ride one Saturday, so we both met in the middle. We enjoyed a nice lunch at the meeting point, I covered his travel cost, and then we were each on the road back home.
He had a pickup truck l believe and I had a large SUV at the time, so it fit in the way back. After I returned, I replaced the old one with the new one - the bolt holes lined right up and there was no fiberglass damage.

I did not have a reason to remove the center span of the railing, so I left it there.
Had the storm damage never taken place, I probably would never have replaced it. Having a secure gate is a good safety feature. You never know.
Good luck!

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Edited by - Voyager on 05/29/2024 06:14:17

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4007 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2024 : 12:08:45

Rather than doing all this cutting, Why not just use a portable boarding ladder that you could hang off the side where the side gates are. Probably the best place for boarding. The stern railing would make for a nice handhold then.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 05/29/2024 12:11:08

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3398 Posts

Response Posted - 06/07/2024 : 21:11:43

I understand why one would consider a modification to the stern rail to facilitate boarding or reboarding but just not sure to what extent the stern rail integrity/flex would be impacted.

However, whether the mod is incorporated or not, I highly recommend inspecting the ladder (stored position) adjacent to the top stern rail to consider if a safety modification is warranted.

When I purchased my boat, I noticed that the ladder was velcroed to the top stern rail to keep it in place and to prevent any rattling that may occur between it and the stern rail. But in the unlikely event that one fell in the water perhaps when docking or when anchored or whatever, having the ladder velcroed or tied to the top stern rail would prevent the ladder to be self-lowered. I then noticed in my marina that there were many sailboats with a similar arrangement - ladder velcroed or tied to the top stern rail. So, what I did was to attach a cam (or wedge) cleat mounted to starboard and clamped to the ladder - Then tied a line loop to the stern rail support base, thru the cam cleat and down the stern above the the waterline. If you fall in the water, the line can easily be pulled out of the cam cleat and the ladder self-lowered. It actually turns out that I did use it once - Got caught out in a storm and as the storm lifted, I made it back to my dock but the wind was pulling my boat away from my finger slip - It was the one time I fell into the water. The boat actually came to rest on the empty adjacent finger slip. My self inflatable vest inflated - Okay, great that it worked! But I could not pull myself onto the floating dock. I guess I could have swam over to a main dock safety ladder but none were near me and the storm was with lightning was a possibility of coming back in - So I considered my options. Then remembered about my ladder safety hookup ! I swam over to the stern, pulled the line loop and self-lowered the ladder. Then it was easy climbing out and back into the boat. By then marina staff came by and helped me tie up my boat. They indicated another person fell in the water the day before and they had to assist in getting him back onto the dock ! So, this is an issue to consider.

Below photo does not provide a close up view of the install but you can see the line dropping down along the stern. (The photo was taken several years ago when my boat was located in a Wash, DC marina but when I used the ladder was a year or so ago further south on the Potomac River at the Quantico Marine Base Marina.)

Recommend consider this mod. There is really no downside to it except that you may never need it. Also, next time down to your marina, perhaps take a look at how many sailboats have their ladders velcroed or tied to the top of the stern rail!

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 06/07/2024 21:30:13

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5296 Posts

Response Posted - 06/10/2024 : 22:54:17

Larry, that�s great advice! You should always have a way to reboard your boat. When I had Passage on floating dock in the river for several years, I had two methods to get back aboard: my boarding ladder - I tied it up with a slip knot, and dangled the long trip line down near the waterline. The other method was a spare dockline that had a loop tied in the end allowing me to get my foot into the loop and raise myself back up on the transom.
I�ve fallen off the dock before and it�s very upsetting. Worse than that, without a line or a ladder, it�s about 16�-18� above the water and nearly impossible to climb back up! I cracked a rib when I tried it. No fun!
You always need a way to save yourself.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

redcat
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2024 : 16:21:36

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Milby

It sounds like you gave considerable thought to it. Photos would be great. Here's a link to help you post photos. https://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=25478&SearchTerms=how,to,post,photos

Unfortunately, the links in the instructions for posting photos all give me errors, and for that matter, so do the Members Area and Join the Association linkson the home page, although I can log on. Not sure what is going on, but tried deleting my browsing history, and same results with both google and firefox browsers.

Encore!
1978 SR-SK

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9039 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2024 : 21:07:24

I was the one who cut the center section of Bruce's rail and capped the two ends. That was for boarding over the transom at the dock, where we had no finger dock for side boarding. It seemed adequately rigid, but I never "tested" it as Bruce reported. I don't know if it would have passed that test even with the center section intact. If it had seemed too weak, I would have added a lower cross-bar like Catalina changed to on the 1989 model (replacing the traveler) as shown in Larry's photo.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/18/2024 21:10:43

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3398 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2024 : 06:10:09

Chuck,
Posting photos like I did above:
1). I copied a photo from my website by right clicking on the photo and selecting copy image address (ie. https......com).
2) Then I go to the Assoc Bulletin Board to start a new posting or reply to a posting. Compose your posting and when you want to insert a photo, click on the above "Insert Image" icon. That will place the following in your posting: "[imag][/imag]" (but without the quotation marks and minus the "a"). I placed the "a" in there so that the bulletin board image engine does not think I am placing a photo in my posting!).
3) Place your cursor between the inner brackets ("][") and then right click and paste your image address. It should then be between the inner brackets.........BUT ENSURE that when you paste the image address in there that you can see the entire image address starting with "http........com" and that the inner left bracket ("]")precedes the ("http...) and that the inner right bracket ("[") is after the (".com") of your pasted in image web address. SOMETIMES, one of those inner brackets is deleted during the pasting your web address. If that happens, then just manually place the appropriate inner bracket where it should be.
4) Then preview your posting to see if your photo shows up. If not...go back and review it again.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Edited by - OLarryR on 06/19/2024 06:13:29

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3398 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2024 : 06:16:28

Bruce - Using a slip knot certainly is an easy way to rig the ladder for safety!

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5296 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2024 : 17:16:33

Dave, until the catastrophic weather event, the split stern rail was perfectly secure and strong, as I used to lean my weight over the section by the engine to raise and lower it using the engine mounting bracket.
I also used to lean up against it when I was steering, and it never had any noticeable �give�.
It was only when the entire righting moment of the keel was applied did it bend. Remarkably, nothing actually broke! Like the gunwales, the mounts and bolts, or the rail�s mounting brackets.
It was pretty gosh-darn strong.

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

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