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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Electrical system

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Maureen1000
Deckhand

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21 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/03/2005 : 12:02:45

I've got some problems with my electronics. Here's the overview

1) Running Lights - most work, a few don't. I replaced some bulbs and that didn't fix it.
2) Depth finder/knot meter worked intermitently. Sometimes the depth meter worked, the knot meter has never worked.
3) Radio seems to short on and off too.

Battery tested full charge and the solar panel works great.

Any ideas on how to try to fix this? The boat is out of the water up on blocks for another 60 days.

As always, thanks for all your help!

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2005 : 16:07:07

There is a term in electronics "common"; your problems sound like they have a common cause. The common part of your electrical system is the grounding buss/bar. If the lead from the battery switch to the ground buss was loose it would cause internittent opens in the circuits and the problems you describe. It amazing how many electrical issues are fixed by re-terminating wires after cleaning the terminals.
That is where I would start.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1913 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2005 : 16:47:09

I agree,sounds like a grounding problem to me too. That's where I would start first.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 03/03/2005 : 18:58:08

Maureen,

If not yet owning a volt ohm meter, and if there is a Harbor Freight and Tool store within your travels, invest $4 (I can't believe they can sell them for that but they do).

Once on intimate terms with this little yellow critter... it will answer a lot of questions quickly. For example, if your anchor light went out and the mast was either dropped or climbed to change the bulb and it wasn't the bulb... arrrrghhh! With the meter, the bulb and circuitry in the mast can be checked with the ohm meter while sunning on the deck and if the problem ain't in the mast... whew, a lot of grief was saved.

Also, a pair of little jumpers with alligator clips, Radio Shack has em, are helpful. These can do lots of things such as temporarily bypass a suspected terminal, make a loop at the yonder end of a circuit so that the circuit resistance can be checked, which will tell quickly if the device out there is the culprit or the wiring to it is misbehaving.

Frank's advice was good (mostly), but if some of the stuff is working and others isn't... I don't think its the negative feed to the bus. If it ain't working...nuthin is working (unless it is some very low current device). I do agree with Frank, that corrosion of contacts at bulb sockets and wire nut joints are prime culprits.

However, once again... I disagree with Frank and don't think commonality is the problem... unless someone put all those things that aren't working...on the same breaker and if so, he might be barking up the right tree after all...

Edited by - Arlyn Stewart on 03/03/2005 19:02:14

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2005 : 00:38:03

Maureen, like Arlyn, I would recommend you purchase a multimeter for future use. Your problems right now IMHO require back to basics. I would start by disconecting the battery and then remove and clean every terminal on the switch panel and buss bar until they are shinny. Spray some silcone on each connection and hook them back up. Then do the same with each light socket, blub and thru hull connector from the mast. Now use your multimeter to check each bulb and replace the bad. Hook up the battery and see what works. At least now you have a starting point since you elminated the boggie man part of electrics which is corrision. You can now use your meter to check wiring and be sure if it checks bad it is.
As for your knot meter, when was the last time the paddle wheel transducer was removed and cleaned? Since your boat is on the hard you can check it easy. Just go under the boat and give it a spin. If it is stuck that is your problem, just push the little pin out remove the wheel and clean it and the transducer cavity. There are little magnets on the wheel so take a nail or something and see if they are still functioning. Reinstall and give it another spin. Now turn it ON, have someone watch the meter and give it a spin. You should get a reading. If not then it could be the transducer or meter electronics. You can call the manufacture and they can tell you how to test the meter to eliminate it.
I know it seems like a lot of work, but with out a known starting point you could spend a year checking wiring and then find out it is corrision. By the way don't forget to check the wiring from the battery to the buss (-) and the battery to the panel (+). Take them off and wiggle them with your meter hooked up to check for broken wires in the casing. I took a car apart chasing an electric problem, including removing the dash, before a friend ask if I checked the battery cables, I said sure first thing. He said no, did I take them off and give the wiggle test with meter? You guessed it the postive cable was bad. Need I say more. Good luck and good hunting.

Edited by - on

Maureen1000
Deckhand

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21 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2005 : 11:07:09

Thanks, great advice. I'll give it a shot and report back.

Maureen

Edited by - on

Capt. Kurt
Navigator

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185 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2005 : 13:56:32

I would start by consulting the wiring diagram for your boat and test continuity of each circuit using an ohm-meter with the battery disconnected. Checking for loose connections as you go. It is satisfying to pinpoint the source of an electrical problem (to me anyway). If you start by cleaning/retightening all the terminals and the problem goes away, you will never know exactly where the problem was and if happens again you' ll still be in the dark (no pun intended).

It sounds like a loose connection to me though.

Kurt
#818 C250WK 'Tortuga'

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 03/04/2005 : 21:04:09

Kurt has a point about a loose connection, but only if the ground to all three circuits are connected to the same terminal on the bus bar. The one thing that steers me away from this is that you have some running lights that work and others that don't, even after changing bulbs. The bulb problem makes me lean to corrision in the bulb socket, which I had a lot of on my '79 C25 as she aged.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 03/05/2005 : 06:24:00

Maureen,

Regarding your inoperative knot meter, you may want to check the only mechanical device you mentioned, the transducer (sending unit). It contains a paddle wheel that, if not installed or turned perpendicular to the hull, will not send a signal. Of course if it's all crudded up it won't work either.

Al
GALLIVANT #5801

Edited by - on

arlingva
Navigator

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USA
116 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2005 : 01:18:17

Maureen,

I'm expecting that boat to be in the water if we come down in April! Everything above is a good idea. If your knot meter is a Raymarine ST 40, I just had to send mine back to the factory for a new sensor. Which they quickly provided at no cost! Also I would highly reccommend buying Don Casey's book, Sailboat Electrics Simplified. I don't ever do anything until I read the applicable section of the book.

Bill

Edited by - on

Capt. Kurt
Navigator

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185 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2005 : 20:15:07

My ST40 knotmeter also periodically stops working. My best guess is that it gets clogged with debris in the lake, but I've never jumped in to confirm that, maybe I'll try that this summer. (although if i go in reverse it usually starts again.) I will try spining it like someone mentioned above to see if it spins freely.

Kurt
#818 C250WK 'Tortuga'

Edited by - on

Maureen1000
Deckhand

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21 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2005 : 20:32:29

The weekend update.
1) The battery was fine last season - totally dead now and won't recharge. Off to buy a new battery.
2) I had barnicle encrusted transducer with no paddlewheel at all. So much for hoping my knotmeter would somehow work. Also, the epoxy around the transducer doesn't look great. Should I yank the whole thing and reinstall? Are the paddlewheels are the same? My knotmeter/depthfinder is a Horizon Strike 200S.
3) Couldn't find the bus bar, just two black and two reds wired to the battery.
4) Sailboat Electrics on order!

What next?

Edited by - on

frog0911
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1349 Posts

Response Posted - 03/06/2005 : 23:33:51

Maureen, you can go online to Horizon and order a new paddle wheel and pin or just contact there customer service and see about sending it in for repair. The two times mine broke in the old Penny I sent them in and they sent me a new transducer at no charge. Even if they charge you something it will be cheaper than going to WM and ordering a new one. Sounds like it was never removed and cleaned during use. The knot meter transducer comes with a plug which allows you to remove the transducer and insert the plug after sailing. Since I am in semi saltwater, depending on how much rain we get, I remove the transducer each time I come in. Yes, about two glasses of water gets in when removing and installing, but it just goes in the bildge and I remove it after I finished sailing and reinstalling the plug. If the transducer housing is not leaking I would not mess with it. I am a member of the, if it ain't broke don't fix it, club.
The buss bar is behind the electrical panel. One of the red and black wires on the battery run to the electrical panel and buss bar and the others probable go to the engine for starting and charging the battery.
I also concur with Bill on the Don Casey's book. It is a must for new boat owners or those not familiar with DC electrics.

Edited by - frog0911 on 03/06/2005 23:44:02

drttu
1st Mate

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USA
41 Posts

Response Posted - 07/15/2005 : 15:49:49

Just wondering how the problem ended up getting solved. I have the same problem on my boat and was going to spend the weekend trying to solve it.

Edited by - on

Maureen1000
Deckhand

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21 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2005 : 14:21:19

I managed to get almost everything solved. I bought some books - Sailboat Electrics Simplified (CASEY) was really good. Got a multimeter - very useful. Here's what happened to me.

1) I had a blown fuse on my solar battery recharger. So, the battery died mid-season.
2) The old battery wouldn't charge up again - and it wasn't a deep cycle. So, I got a deep cycle battery for $40 at the Bass Pro shop.
3) I never had a wheel on the transducer, so the knotmeter was never going to work. I got a replacement, but it didn't fit. At that point, I wanted the boat in the water, so I didn't care about having a knotmeter. I have a handheld GPS anyway.
4) I still haven't fixed the anchor light problem. With a 3 year old, I'm pretty much a day sailor right now. The wiring is still very messy, but if it works, I'm not touching it. There's always next season to fix that!

I'm now hot (no pun intended) on getting a bimini.

Good luck!

Maureen
Cat's Meow, #155
Hampton, VA

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