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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Inverted main; Inverted mast?

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Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/10/2003 : 00:52:34

A Catalina 22 article appears in this month's Catalina Mainsheet (page 58). In it the author refers to an "inverted main" and later an "inverted mast".
What is the exact definition of these terms?
Thanks,

Mark L.
Cat 25 SR/SK #549

Edited by - on

Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2003 : 10:42:14

Well, we once went sailing with another couple on their boat, and the guy inadvertantly hanked on his jib upside down... He hoisted it just as we were alongside the J-24 fleet going out to race... Got a few guffaws out of that one!

But I don't think that's what the article is talking about. I suspect it means a reverse bend, with the base and head forward of the middle, which would have the opposite effect on sail shape that a normal bend has--making the main more full. But who knows--they might mean upside-down!

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

Edited by - dave b on 08/10/2003 10:48:59

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Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2003 : 20:14:54

Thanks Dave ... It is hard to understand. This is what the author wrote:

"The further we went up the racecourse the harder the wind blew and we finally reached the point where the full main was inverted."

he added,

"I wanted to reef but was afraid to release the main for reefing for fear of overloading my small mast and causing an inverted mast which is much worse than an inverted main."

Dave, I'm not a racer but no matter what winds we've experienced on our lake, I've always been able to luff, pinch, reef or furl ... to control the sails (and the boat). I don't fully understand what this author is trying to say.
Thanks,

Mark L.
Cat 25 SR/SK #549

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Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2003 : 09:38:02

Beats me! Racers??? <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2003 : 09:50:36

Hi Mark,

I think that the author was saying that he had backwinded the mainsail with wind from his jib all the way from luff to leach. That would be some pretty serious backwind.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

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ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2003 : 09:58:32

"Inverting the mast"?

Perhaps the author was simply being clever.. and "Inverted Mast" was his way of stating the imminent possiblity of "Inverted Boat" ?

Makes sense if taken that way. Yes, having an inverted mast would indeed be much worse than having an inverted main.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

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Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2003 : 10:10:52

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
..."Inverted Mast" was his way of stating the imminent possiblity of "Inverted Boat" ?

Makes sense if taken that way. Yes, having an inverted mast would indeed be much worse than having an inverted main.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Yup! Or, he meant his rig would fail and the mast would come down... But why was he worrying about releasing the main?

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2003 : 11:29:56

Mark,

"Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of man, the SHADOW knows" and so it goes with article writers. To invert is to change to the opposite position, Clam's opinion seems to be on target. Up is down.

The sight of a person raising a sail, foot up, must have been a pants wetter.

Val on Calista # 3936

Val Bisagni]<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df11b3127cce94709c5ff2e90000000010" border=0>

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Steve Kostanich
1st Mate

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88 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2003 : 12:28:11

I actually saw a guy set a spinnaker turned 120 degrees so the head was one of the clews. This was on a 35 foot boat, on a down wind start of a race. He wasn't too thrilled when I sent him an 8x10 photo of the event.

Steve Kostanich C-25 Equinox 1119 sk/sr moored Oly., WA.

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Ed Montague
Captain

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USA
499 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2003 : 12:39:26

I am of the same opinion as Bill. The main can get so back winded that it will pop over with the shape on the wrong side. I can also see the extreme where the mast could bend the wrong way. With the jib pulling hard and the mast and main going the wrong way perhaps the writer is concerned with breaking the mast. Time to reef!!!! In fact way past the proper time to reef.

Ed Montague on 'Yahoo'
1978 #765 SK, Stnd, Dinette ~_/)~

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Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3321 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2003 : 18:42:08

I crewed for one of Gene Henderson's competitors in the C22 Nationals last year - he ran a full 155 and a full main in 23 knots and never even lost his Stetson....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> He's been sailing a C22 since Hitler was a corporal...
Derek

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3dc30b3127cce942c608d6f1e0000001010" border=0>
TRFK#2262"This Side Up"

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tinob
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1883 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2003 : 09:39:02

Steve,

Did he opt to buy the negative <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Val on Calista #3936-'83

Val Bisagni]<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df11b3127cce94709c5ff2e90000000010" border=0>

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Mark Loyacano
Navigator

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USA
247 Posts

Response Posted - 08/23/2003 : 23:17:18

Gene Ferguson, author of the "Mainsheet" article about the "inverted main" and "inverted mast" wrote to me with the following definition(s) of these terminologies:

"...an inverted main is when the chord of the main moves to the windward side and no longer has any shape for driving the boat. An inverted mast is when the bend in the mast is reversed and the point at the spreaders is behind the perpindicular. In other words a reverse bend in the mast, and this will cause the spreaders to kick forward, thus loosening the tension on the uppers and increases the likelihood of the mast coming down."

Thats all he wrote.

Mark L.
Cat 25 SR/SK #549

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2003 : 18:38:46

Hobie Cats had adjustable battens...in light air we tightened them to force a pocket which often wouldn't snap to the other tack and thus was inverted. It took grabing the boom and quickly snatching it across to pop the main to the other tack.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2003 : 09:38:23

A mast will invert when the forward lowers are too loose. That allows the middle of the mast to bend to the back. The first good puff would blow the center back. It sounds like someone tried to loosen the shrouds for adjustability on the race course and forgot that the forward shrouds need to be tight. If they had the upper shrouds "race tight" then the inversion would have happened with a great whump and a single pump. I bet it sounded awful from down by the compression post.

Frank and Martha in Wichita KS. Lake Cheney

Edited by - fhopper@mac.com on 09/05/2003 09:39:21

Edited by - fhopper@mac.com on 09/05/2003 09:40:18

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