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Horsepower

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Wogman
Deckhand

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21 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/23/2003 : 19:35:19

Looking to re-power my C250WB with a 4 stroke motor and was curious to get feedback from others. Currently running a Johnson Sailmaster 9.9 (2 stroke, obviously) and it has plenty of power to spare. I have my eyes on the Honda 8 and 9.9 and would like to know if "8 is Enough"?

Edited by - on

cathluk
Admiral

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USA
513 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2003 : 07:50:09

We have an '80s vintage Honda 4 stroke 7.5 HP & its plenty.

Cathy
"Blown Away"
'97 C250WK #253

Edited by - on

Oscar
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2030 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2003 : 10:39:15

Where do you sail? If you're bucking into 6 footers and 20 knots for hours trying to get home, you need all the help you can get.
We have the Honda 9.9 High Thrust. I believe the latter part means it's designed to give optimum oomph at lower speeds. Thus gearing, prop pitch (4blade), are set up for the 0-6 knot range. Go to your Honda dealer and let them educate you.

Oscar
<img src="http://www.woodenshoemusic.com/Images/familypics/LKforumshot.jpg" border=0>
Lady Kay 250 WB #618
In the driveway in Behtlehem, PA ready to go anytime.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2003 : 18:39:21

If you go Honda, the 8 and 9.9 are the same motor with 500-1000 rpm's difference. I have the 8 and have never needed more than half throttle and that in some tough conditions.

The old 8 was a true 8 hp...and it never needed more than 2/3 throttle...so this is one place that you could save about three boat units for something else and never feel like you compromised.

Be sure that you get an extra long shaft.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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marzluff
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2003 : 20:05:01

I have a 9.9. When the tide is fully running, even that is barely enough. If you have the potential of strong tides or current, get the bigger one.

Mike

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2003 : 00:13:20

Mike... in almost everything...more power means faster speeds... But discplacement boats break that rule. Like an airlplane, a boat moves within a medium according to rules which aren't particularly affected by the movement of the medium itself. Airspeed and water speed don't care about jetstreams or tides and currents.

If an 8 hp will push the boat to its maximum hull speed (a water speed) at half throttle...the 9.9 will do no better.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2003 : 01:22:59

I have to agree with Arlyn, a bigger engine doesn't change the hull speed physics of the non-planing displacement hull.

On my last boat I had a 9.9 and that engine was a bit much for that boat. If I applied too much throttle the bow would rise as it tried to get over the bow wave and the stern would squat. The result...I would slow down even though the engine was churnin' and burnin'. If I wanted to speed up, I had to throttle back to get the bow down and the stern up so the displacement hull could move more efficiently through the water.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2003 : 09:15:22

Don...your right about a reduction of speed when adding more power beyond that required to reach hull speed.

I've not checked the drop that occurs with the 2001 Honda 8...but did so with the '93 Honda 8. It would push the boat to 5.3 knots at 1/3 throttle, required another third to squeeze the last knot (at a significant use of fuel) and the last third would cause a drop of a half knot.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

Bristle
Admiral

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USA
834 Posts

Response Posted - 04/26/2003 : 12:30:46

The Honda 8 is ample for the 5500 lb. C-25, so it's more than ample for the C-250. The 9.9 is exactly the same engine, minus a limiter on the RPMs that you will truly never use. Forget about currents--the issue is whether you can easily reach hull speed. If the current is seven knots against you, you're going backward no matter what engine you put on it, unless the engine is big enough to plane the boat.

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 SR-FK-Dinette-Honda "Passage" in SW CT

Edited by - on

mmodine
1st Mate

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26 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2003 : 23:12:02

I have never regreted the 15 HP Honda on our 250K.

Speed is one thing, POWER is another.

I don't know what it's like in Tejas but up here in the Rockie Mtns. the wind can blow. A 8 HP 2 stroke could not keep the bow into the wind like the Honda can.

"Luna Maya" 250K #579

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2003 : 12:58:32

Local lake sailing here in East Texas is pretty tame... with the only threats being a thunderstorm squall line coming thru. Most sailboats restricted to local lakes use only a minimum kicker to get in and out of the slip and run for cover at the sign of bad weather or wait it out... thunder heads move thru quickly.

Most of my sailing is done during cruising however on the Great Lakes... and the story is different dealing with long fetches. There, when a strong breeze is on the bow... the actuality is that the motor has to be eased back considerably to keep from launching off the crest and slamming into troughs. It may seem ironic that the worse conditions that I've motored into... required the least throttle.

Cruising also places other concerns upon the choice of outboard.... wanted is a motor that will move the boat easily at a good cruising speed yet be quiet, vibration free, and as economical as possible.

The 90's era Honda 8 did this in some ways better than the 2001 and later as it provided better fuel efficiency. However, it was not as safe as it didn't offer an extra long shaft. The 2001 also offers better charging rate and regulator which are important to the cruiser... so all in all the 2001 Honda 8 makes a very good cruising motor with the only drawback that it is heavier than necessary and uses more fuel than it would if it had been designed as a dedicated 8 hp.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

Rick Evans
1st Mate

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USA
38 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2003 : 19:04:21

Everybody has contributed excellent commments but one more I would like to add regards service issues. I learned the hard way that Honda is not as popular a marine produce as it may be for cars or motorcycles. When I had a simple spark plug die on me, the nearest place I could find one was over 50 miles away. It's not like I live in the boondocks. I'm in San Antonio. There was was a dealership at a lake 50 miles north or else the next closest was Houston. Since then I've checked out this issue and found that Honda outboards are rather uncommon. A recent issue of Practical Sailor established that Honda is barely on the radar screen for outboards used to power dinghy tenders. So, before you buy a Honda, just verify that you have ready access to service AND PARTS. I had the service but just finding a spark plug took me over a week.

Edited by - on

RoofRoof
Navigator

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USA
186 Posts

Response Posted - 05/09/2003 : 14:47:00

I have the New Honda 8hp 4stroke, XL shaft. It is perfect. Same motor as their 9.9 with slightly less rpm.

Works fine off shore where I sail, pushing my heavier C-25.

Other than mine being a lemon......hopefully Honda will do me right.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 05/11/2003 : 11:46:57

"Honda is not as popular a marine product..."

I think they are plenty popular, but have a strong "franchise protection" program, which results in fewer dealerships and tends to exclude smaller "mom-n-pop" operations from their marine products lines.

This can become a major consideration if you're going to Mexico... or elsewhere in third world countries where Yamaha is pretty much the standard panga engine.

In that respect, there is nothing wrong with the Yamaha 8hp high-thrust, especially if Mexico is in your plans. That said, the Honda motors are engineering jewels and are pretty much the standard by which others are compared.

Either the Honda or Yamaha in an 8 HP, high thrust, extra long shaft configuration is likely just the ticket.

Since the 8 HP will move the boat at hull speed, adding more power won't make it go any faster. The extra thrust of the 9.9 (or other higher HP motors) comes into play where you need to buck headwinds in addition to current.

Currently maintaining two holes in the water...'77 Venture 23 and new to the family,
'78 Catalina 25

Edited by - on

DavidCardoza
Deckhand

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USA
9 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2003 : 11:18:03

But no one has mentioned my favorite feature the 9.9 is electric start. My wife and daughters can start this without an issue an come get me if i'm ever so stuped as to leave the boat while underweigh.

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jguyot
1st Mate

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USA
97 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2003 : 18:24:44

Hi Dave
Just to let you know that the 8hp also comes with electric start. I have a 2001 8hp with the full remote package with all controls, including the "Key Start" mounted on the pedestal and I love it! Makes life so much easier.

Jerry Guyot
250WK #586
"Sail La Vie"

Edited by - on

DavidCardoza
Deckhand

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USA
9 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 11:19:43

I'm bummed my 9.9 is a 99 don't recall them offering the electric on the 8 at that time.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 11:40:22

Electric start and I think (but am not sure) that XLS came available on the Honda 8 in 2001 when the 8 and the 9.9 were redesigned to share the same motor similar to the way yours shared with the 15 hp.

It may be however that an xls 8 was produced prior to 2001 but no upgrade from ls to xls was offered, otherwise I would have stuck with the pre 2001 motor.

btw... the pull start on 2001 and later Honda 8-9.9s requires such little effort... any one with enough strength to tiller a boat... can pull the starter... but, getting the starter also gets the 12 amp charging circuit.

Arlyn C-250 W/B #224
<img src="http://www.stewartfam.net/arlyn/rr.jpg" border=0>
N/E Texas and Great Lakes

[url="http://www.cox-internet.com/arlynstewart/"]Arlyn's C250 Mods n Cruisin Stories[/url]

Edited by - on

RoofRoof
Navigator

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USA
186 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2003 : 13:41:11

Jguyot, any problems with your Honda? I've had more than my share, and am waiting for a call back from Honda. I have your same motor:
2001 8hp 4stroke XLshaft.

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jguyot
1st Mate

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USA
97 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2003 : 10:25:16

Hi Alan

I have not had any problems at all. Mine has been purrrrrrfect! Sorry to hear you have had some...... What type of problems have you had?

Jerry Guyot
250WK #586
"Sail La Vie"

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Robert
1st Mate

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USA
75 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2003 : 13:31:22

I have a Honda 8HT/XL with an electric start on a C250WB wheel steering and have not had any problems. When I bought the boat two years ago, I was looking at a Yamaha electric start. There were two issues, fit on the transom and charging, that made me settle on the Honda. I have had the boat in some pretty difficult tides and winds on the S.F.Bay and the Moss Landing approach on the Monterey Bay and have not had any problems. My only dissatisfaction is turning in close quarters under power and I am seriously considering adding Arlyn's soft link.

2WX@55

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Dave B
Admiral

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Mali
863 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2003 : 22:34:21

One more knock on the Yamaha, although it is a nice engine: No pull starter. If your battery lets you down with the Yamaha, you have to remove the cowling, unbolt the flywheel cover, and then you can use the emergency cord. If the current is pushing you toward the rocks, you'd better forget that and deploy the anchor!

Dave Bristle, 1985 C-25 #5032 "Passage" SR/FK/Dinette/Honda in SW CT

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