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 Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums
 Catalina 25 Specific Forum
 Outboard Motor options		  New Topic  Topic Locked
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johnnyd
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts
Initially Posted - 03/19/2022 :  10:45:20  Show Profile
Just wondering what shaft length everybody typically uses? Thinking about getting an extra long 25" shaft but it may not be necessary. Also what motor mount is good for these boats. Lastly any brands that offer better value for sailboats.

keats
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
215 Posts
Response Posted - 03/19/2022 :  11:07:57  Show Profile
A 25" shaft is going to be the only choice to get the prop deep enough.

From there, opinions will differ on HP and brand. 9.9 HP is the most popular and the most you would need. A lower power motor will decrease cost and weight and may be an option for some situations.

I personally think Tohatsu is the best value and they manufacture many of the other brands and tend to introduce new options,such as EFI, earlier. They cost less.

A stainless steel adjustable motor mount, such as Garhauer, is often used. A four spring model for heavier motors and less springs for lighter motors.
Tim Keating
1985 C-25 TR/FK #4940
Midsummer
Lake Don Pedro, CA
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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5882 Posts
Response Posted - 03/19/2022 :  12:13:24  Show Profile
Without a doubt, some people really need a 121 lb 9.9 hp motor to cope with really strong currents, but in reality, most of us can get by just fine with a 61 lb Tohatsu Sailpro 6 hp, with alternator and 25" shaft, not to mention the considerable price disparity. ($3,223.00 for the 9.9 at Defender vs $1,689.00 for the Sailpro 6 at Tohatsu Direct the last time I checked.) The performance difference is about 1/2 kt top speed. That half knot difference only really matters if you motor frequently in very strong currents. I used mine on the Chesapeake Bay where tidal currents commonly ran between 1-2 kts.

The Sailpro 6 has a single cylinder, which accounts for its light 61 lbs. weight. 9.9 engines are two cylinder typically weighing 120 lbs., which makes them a major chore to unmount and carry to your car for service or repair. The 2 cylinder motors have a smoother sound, if that matters to you. At age 77, I occasionally unmounted my 6 while under way and stowed it inside the cabin for a race.

Some mistakenly think the extra power of the 9.9 will drive the boat better to windward against a 3 ft chop. When a wave rolls under the bow, it lifts the bow. When the wave rolls past the middle of the boat, the bow tilts down, which lifts the stern high, and that will lift even an XL shaft out of the water, providing no propulsion. If a 6 won't drive the boat to windward against a chop, neither will a 9.9, because both props will be spinning in the air. The problem isn't a lack of power. It's the way a wave lifts the hull of the boat. The reality in that situation is that you have to turn downwind and find shelter to wait until the conditions abate.
Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore
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Boomeroo
Navigator

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Australia
129 Posts
Response Posted - 03/19/2022 :  21:37:32  Show Profile
The most important issue is the extra long shaft . This allows you to motor sail on both tacks and handle reasonable waves . A 4 hp or 6 or 9 will give you speed thru calm water but wind and waves that stop the boat need the torque of the motor to get you back to speed.. this means the high thrust propellor is important .
Have my tohatsu 9.8 spring mounting on a slide so I can go another 8 inches deeper if in ocean or motor sailing on wrong tack.
Had a 4 hp on a 26 ft yacht so we could store below for races . Went into 30 kn and chop ok but needed to motor of at 30 deg to wind to build speed and come up until next big gust or wave .
Graeme Bishop boomeroo Australia
C25 SK
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Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1891 Posts
Response Posted - 03/20/2022 :  13:04:15  Show Profile  Visit Leon Sisson's Homepage
Just adding my voice to the chorus above.  For outboard power on a Catalina 25, the most important features to me are:
  1. Extra long shaft, 25".

  2. "High Thrust" or whatever a particular manufacturer calls it — large, low pitch, slow turning prop with big paddle-like blades, the more surface area the better.

  3. Four-stroke to protect the environment.  If you don't understand, or agree with the need for this, then please read up on 2-cycle engine pollution — there is a huge difference.

  4. Get a sturdy retractable outboard engine mount.  I see no downside (beside price) to using one rated for a lot more power than the engine on it.  For a given rated power, high thrust long shaft outboards apply a lot more force through the mount.  Wider range (highest to lowest) is better, as are more positions in between.

  5. Readily accessible gear shift handle.

  6. Electric starting sure is nice!

  7. Light weight for whatever combination of features and performance you decide on.

  8. Local dealer support.  I'd say the priority of this depends a lot on how comfortable a boat owner is working on their own engine.

  9. Related to the above point, age/hours/saltwater use of a used motor vs. new.  I buy almost all durable goods used, and with very few exceptions I'm comfortable doing just about all my own work.  (As opposed to paying exorbitant labor rates and retail parts prices to someone who may not be any more experienced and competent than me.)
Over several decades, sailboats, and motors, I've used 2- and 4-strokes, single and twin cylinders, recoil and electric start, short, long, and extra long shafts, OMC, Honda, and Yamaha brands.  My current favorite on my Catalina 25 is a late model Yamaha 9.9 hp high thrust with electric start, built-in fresh water flush, and manual tilt/trim.  Mine is on a beefy mount rated for twice its horse power.
 
I agree a high thrust 8 hp would be enough for a Catalina 25.
 
I briefly used an old 20" long shaft recoil start 10 hp Honda B100 on the Catalina 25.  I wasn't at all satisfied with it.  Biggest annoyances were shaft length, shifter location, manual start, and general purpose prop.
 
As mentioned by others, 9.9 hp 4-stroke twins with electric start weigh 120 lbs or more.  Mine is right at 125 lbs.  Installation and removal can be a daunting task; not something I look forward to.
 
Some additional considerations while repowering:
  1. Through-bolt your expensive new engine to the motor board of the mount.  Every bolt attaching the motor to the boat should have something to prevent it coming loose from vibration (nylock, locktite, etc.).

  2. Add some sort of safety leash or security cable/chain between motor and transom (not the mount) to prevent losing the motor entirely if it somehow gets loose.

  3. Install a circuit breaker close to the battery large enough to handle the alternator, or electric starter, if there is one.  If using that same circuit breaker for house electrical loads, then also be sure it can handle a couple times your highest anticipated electrical load.  (And size the wiring accordingly.)

  4. If the circuit breaker isn't intended to be used as a switch, then consider a separate conveniently located emergency cut-off switch in series with the battery.  (If a starter relay sticks on, or its + battery cable short circuits to the engine, what's your next step?)

  5. Install a high quality fuel filter with inspectable (i.e. clear) water trap.  (Yes, the good ones are a lot more expensive and time consuming to install.)

  6. A remote fuel shut off can save wear and tear on the hose quick connector when running the carburetor dry after each use.

  7. In buying a fuel line primer bulb, you don't get what you don't pay for.  Look at buyer feedback on longevity and reliability.

  8. A 10 hp motor doesn't need more than a 1/4" fuel line, which can save a few $$.  If you want 'the good stuff' look into fuel hose rated for commercial use.
Happy motoring!
 
— Leon Sisson
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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9047 Posts
Response Posted - 03/21/2022 :  20:52:16  Show Profile
The 25" shaft is the first priority outboard feature...

I bought (and I think "Voyager" Bruce might still have) a "Power Thrust" (high-thrust) Honda 8. It's the same engine (displacement, carb, etc.) as the 9.9--according to a Honda company rep at a show, the only difference is a different cam that gives more low end torque and less high-end HP (and something like a $350 lower price--a common marketing thing.) He said the 8 was the better choice for a sailboat or other heavy displacement hull. I hardly ever ran it over 2/3 throttle going through Long Island Sound chop. Compared to the standard pitch prop on the older Honda 8, it could stop my C-25 as if it had run into a pillow, and produced less "prop-walk" (sideways thrust that pushes the stern to starboard in forward, and pulls it to port in reverse, particularly when it's gunned at at very low boat speed).

A "high-thrust" prop has lower pitch and greater surface area (and usually diameter), so it turns a little faster for a given speed through the water, like a lower gear on a truck. A higher (standard) pitch prop is meant for planing or lightweight hulls to maximize speed.
Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge
Edited by - Stinkpotter on 03/21/2022 20:55:20
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johnnyd
Deckhand

Members Avatar

USA
23 Posts
Response Posted - 03/26/2022 :  15:23:43  Show Profile
This was so helpful. Thank you so much Leon.

quote:
Originally posted by Leon Sisson

Just adding my voice to the chorus above.  For outboard power on a Catalina 25, the most important features to me are:
  1. Extra long shaft, 25".

  2. "High Thrust" or whatever a particular manufacturer calls it — large, low pitch, slow turning prop with big paddle-like blades, the more surface area the better.

  3. Four-stroke to protect the environment.  If you don't understand, or agree with the need for this, then please read up on 2-cycle engine pollution — there is a huge difference.

  4. Get a sturdy retractable outboard engine mount.  I see no downside (beside price) to using one rated for a lot more power than the engine on it.  For a given rated power, high thrust long shaft outboards apply a lot more force through the mount.  Wider range (highest to lowest) is better, as are more positions in between.

  5. Readily accessible gear shift handle.

  6. Electric starting sure is nice!

  7. Light weight for whatever combination of features and performance you decide on.

  8. Local dealer support.  I'd say the priority of this depends a lot on how comfortable a boat owner is working on their own engine.

  9. Related to the above point, age/hours/saltwater use of a used motor vs. new.  I buy almost all durable goods used, and with very few exceptions I'm comfortable doing just about all my own work.  (As opposed to paying exorbitant labor rates and retail parts prices to someone who may not be any more experienced and competent than me.)
Over several decades, sailboats, and motors, I've used 2- and 4-strokes, single and twin cylinders, recoil and electric start, short, long, and extra long shafts, OMC, Honda, and Yamaha brands.  My current favorite on my Catalina 25 is a late model Yamaha 9.9 hp high thrust with electric start, built-in fresh water flush, and manual tilt/trim.  Mine is on a beefy mount rated for twice its horse power.
 
I agree a high thrust 8 hp would be enough for a Catalina 25.
 
I briefly used an old 20" long shaft recoil start 10 hp Honda B100 on the Catalina 25.  I wasn't at all satisfied with it.  Biggest annoyances were shaft length, shifter location, manual start, and general purpose prop.
 
As mentioned by others, 9.9 hp 4-stroke twins with electric start weigh 120 lbs or more.  Mine is right at 125 lbs.  Installation and removal can be a daunting task; not something I look forward to.
 
Some additional considerations while repowering:
  1. Through-bolt your expensive new engine to the motor board of the mount.  Every bolt attaching the motor to the boat should have something to prevent it coming loose from vibration (nylock, locktite, etc.).

  2. Add some sort of safety leash or security cable/chain between motor and transom (not the mount) to prevent losing the motor entirely if it somehow gets loose.

  3. Install a circuit breaker close to the battery large enough to handle the alternator, or electric starter, if there is one.  If using that same circuit breaker for house electrical loads, then also be sure it can handle a couple times your highest anticipated electrical load.  (And size the wiring accordingly.)

  4. If the circuit breaker isn't intended to be used as a switch, then consider a separate conveniently located emergency cut-off switch in series with the battery.  (If a starter relay sticks on, or its + battery cable short circuits to the engine, what's your next step?)

  5. Install a high quality fuel filter with inspectable (i.e. clear) water trap.  (Yes, the good ones are a lot more expensive and time consuming to install.)

  6. A remote fuel shut off can save wear and tear on the hose quick connector when running the carburetor dry after each use.

  7. In buying a fuel line primer bulb, you don't get what you don't pay for.  Look at buyer feedback on longevity and reliability.

  8. A 10 hp motor doesn't need more than a 1/4" fuel line, which can save a few $$.  If you want 'the good stuff' look into fuel hose rated for commercial use.
Happy motoring!
 
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Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.