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Removing old bottom paint?

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/06/2003 : 14:27:16

My old '78 has too many layers of ablative (copolymer) bottom paint. It has just gotten too rough for racing, what with old chips, etc. so that it is not real fair anymore. Being somewhat lazy, and having too little time, I am trying to explore the easiest, quickest way to remove the layers that are on the boat.

I MAY do the barrier coat bit if I get down to gel coat, but after 25 years I have not had much of a blister issue, so I may not do it. I am afraid of trapping existing moisture within the hull. The boat has been out of the water for 3 months or more under a shed roof.

I don't yet own enough good tools, so this is an issue for me. I have only used a 1/3 sheet Makita finishing sander in the past with 80 grit. Getting through several layers will take FOREVER. I am actually toying with renting a sandblaster (with walnut shells as abrasive, not sand). The rental guys say it will work and not harm the fiberglass, but I am seeking other opinions. I would consider some sort of stripper, but I am concerned a bit about my painted trailer upon which she rests.

My friend, Terry Annis, said he scraped his "fuzzy" paint off with some sort of scraper before the VC Tar and VC 17 treatment, but mentioned that it took 5 days.....

Must I scrape, then sand? What sort of sander should I buy or rent? I HATE slow hand sanding. What do you folks use on the tightly radiused surfaces like the mini "keel" aft, near the transom?

I would appreciate any and all responses. I hope to begin this job next weekend (April 12 or so....) There is a regatta two weeks after that, and I would love to be ready for it...hence the hurry....

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2003 : 18:26:51

There's a forum member named Douglas who came up with what I think is the best yet combination of equipment for this ugly task:

Random orbital sander attached to a shop vac. Not sure what grit(s) he used but I've had good results with 80 grit.

You may want to investigate a sand blaster that uses Baking Soda - which has very sharp edges but turns to powder when it hits it's target.

Good luck.

Edited by - on

mroettersr
Navigator

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USA
148 Posts

Response Posted - 04/06/2003 : 23:53:17

Gary,
I redid the bottom of my Catalina 22 a few years ago and think I would rather have a root canal than do another. The paint was thick with much of it beginning to flake on the underside of the hull near the keel and back to the rudder. I used a carpenter's chisle (not too sharp) and it took the paint off rather nicely without damaging the gel coat underneath. It was a filthy job and took almost three days. I wore a face mask and goggles because of the dust and debris. Once cleaned up and painted, the bottom looked great and held up well through the season. I don't envy you. Perhaps pressure washing would do some good.

Mike Roetter
'83 C25 #3568 SK/SR
Marblehead on Lake Erie

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svmoxie
Past Commodore

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USA
331 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2003 : 15:10:45

Gary,

I recently did this job on my '81 C25. 20 years worth of non-ablative bottom paint was in pretty bad shape, it kind of looked like the surface of the moon.

I used "peel away" stripper on the inside of the keel trunk (swing keel) due to the tight spaces and curves.

However for the majority of the hull I used a simple 4 inch wallpaper scraper and I went through about 5 blades. With a little practice on the stern, where it is pretty flat, I was able to figure the best angle and the bottom paint just peel off in tiny pieces. I placed a drop cloth on the ground to collect the scrapings.

<img src="http://www.homedepot.com/cmc_upload/HDUS/EN_US/asset/images/pii/4/3/5/5/A65534_3.JPG" border=0>

This left a slight paint residue on the gel coat that I sanded off with a Dewalt RO sander using 80 grit paper. The pad on this sander is very flexible and it would follow the curves of the "mini keel" skeg. Over that went 7 coats of 2001 epoxy sealer and the two coats of Red ablative bottom paint (Micron Extra) and then two coats of Black.

The keel was out of the boat for a separate involved repair that is another story entirely.

Scraping the hull took me about 10 hours total and another 8 for all the sanding but it was much easier than the chemical stripper in my opinion.

The "Peel Away" worked best for me with a coarse bronze wool pad to scrub out the keel trunk and then water to flush it. Very messy but the peel paper didn't work very well. It probably would work better on more accessible areas but the scraper was just as easy and much cheaper.

For safety I used a pair of tyvek hooded coveralls and a 3M full face respirator. This picture does not show the filter but they offer several types.
<img src="http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?hhhhhhR59twhBLihVLihhhInqt3F5Dth-" border=0>

If you choose to blast with either shells or soda I would encourage you to seal the hull with a barrier coat. If you just scrape and sand you might not need to. I just decided that I wasn't going to do all this work EVER again so I sealed it while I was there. Good Luck!

I will be glad to answer any questions....

Clif Thompson
Treasurer C-25/250 National Association.
svMoxie '81 25 sk

Edited by - on

jheard
1st Mate

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USA
49 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2003 : 16:44:54

Most bottom paints are designed to come off in the water over time. When you clean your bottom, you are basically taking off another layer of paint. I have not seen this suggested, but the last time I did a bottom paint job, this method worked great. We used a hose and a scotch brite pad with a handle on it. We ran the hose over the paint and hand sanded with the scotch brite pad. The bottom paint seemed to melt away. There was no toxic dust, and no heavy sander.

Edited by - on

dgabel
1st Mate

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USA
75 Posts

Response Posted - 04/07/2003 : 17:35:18

I had several coats of bottom paint (about 1/16 inch) on my boat when I bought her. After one season I decided I HAD to re-do the bottom. She was really foul, as a boat yard had just painted over the bottom with no surfacing effort at all.

Started with a large orbital sander. Then saw how slow that was going to go, and tried remover. Finally wound up with a remover called Dad's something or other, which worked. But you can't leave it on too long because it will eat through the gel coat.

NEver did get all the paint off, but got most of it. Filled holes with Kitty Hair filler and sanded it smooth. Feathered where I couldn't get the last bits of paint off. User a scraper, the remover, and the sander. Huge job, and I don't want to do it again, because it really is tough.

I have heard that the remover you can buy at boat shops that uses two parts, a liquid and then a paper that you put on to keep it moist, works well. After several hours, you peel the paper and it brings the paint with it. But as I say, I didn't try it, so I can't vouch for it.

Dave Gabel
Walkure
Sail 1484, wing keel, tall rig

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 04/08/2003 : 00:03:24

Folks,

Thanks to all for the great ideas. I will tell you later which idea I used and how it worked. To tell you the truth, pressure washing does always result in colored water everywhere. I may actually try the water/scotch brite idea first since it sounds easiest and least dangerous to the bottom, etc. We'll see. I really appreciate all the input. If someone else wants to ring in....I'll keep monitoring this thread.

Gary B.
Encore! # 685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2003 : 02:34:05

Just received this:

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/index.htm?E+scstore

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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2003 : 03:03:39

Josh,
I don't mean to be rude, and I know there is no simple answer.

We used a hose and a scotch brite pad with a handle on it. We ran the hose over the paint and hand sanded with the scotch brite pad. The bottom paint seemed to melt away. There was no toxic dust, and no heavy sander.

"Where does the toxic solution go." Was it going down a storm drain etc. This will be a pretty concentrated slug of stuff getting loose too. Are there any notes on cleaning after painting. These directions might need to be used with the water method. It does sound like a good way to do the job, I'm just curious.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2003 : 00:32:29

Well, I am not sure why, since my paint is "ablative", but the hose and scotchbright didn't seem to do it on my boat. Seemed very, very slow. It is beginning to look like there won't be an "easy" way. I bought an orbital sander today, but haven't had time to try it.....I'll keep checking in....

Gary B.
#685 SK/SR

P.S. I am out in the "boonies". I think I won't worry too much if bottom paint goes into the gravel under my shed roof. I don't want vegetation to grow there anyway.....The well is a hundred feet away or more......

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2003 : 01:13:26

"Where does the toxic solution go?"

The toxic antifouling paint goes to the same place it would if it were still on the boat's hull...into the environment.

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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MattL
Admiral

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USA
990 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2003 : 01:49:01

OK, my old boss had a mantra; the solution to pollution is dillution. Not looking for a law suit but that was at EJ Gallo.

Matt/Brigitte Loeffler
E.C. Rider
Cat 25 86'
FK/SR _/)

Edited by - on

John Mason
Admiral

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USA
687 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2003 : 19:58:45

I don't think there is an easy way, myself. I'm in the middle of the same process right now.

Pressure washing took off a little.

Then I tried sanding with a 1/4 sheet pad sander. Paper loaded up too fast.

Then I tried with a sanding disc in a drill motor. Took it off too fast and some of the gel coat, too. Paper still loaded up too fast.

Then I tried chemical stripper. It turned it all to a really messy goo, but only took off the first layer of what I estimate to be about five.

So I started using a stiff 1 1/2" wide putty knife. That works on all but the tough areas.

So finally, I bought a CARBIDE tipped cabinet scraper. It takes some practice and considerable elbow grease, but it does take it off.

I have about 1/2 the hull scraped to the gel coat. I've been at it a couple of weekends now.

I'm sure the project will speed up once all the old paint is removed. At least that's what I keep telling myself.

John Mason
<img src="http://www.users.qwest.net/~jamason/ali.jpg" border=0>
pronounced "Ali Paroosa"
1982 - FK/SR #3290

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2003 : 20:24:11

I used a two handed scraper when I did my bottom job last Spring.

<img src="http://www.epaintstore.com/graphics/hyde_lifetime_scraper.JPG" border=0>

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2003 : 01:23:06

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I'm sure the project will speed up once all the old paint is removed. At least that's what I keep telling myself.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

John,
Using your 1/4 sheet sander with 80 grit should work well once you're finished with the scraper.
Hang in there!

Edited by - on

jheard
1st Mate

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USA
49 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2003 : 17:44:20

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Josh,
I don't mean to be rude, and I know there is no simple answer.

We used a hose and a scotch brite pad with a handle on it. We ran the hose over the paint and hand sanded with the scotch brite pad. The bottom paint seemed to melt away. There was no toxic dust, and no heavy sander.

"Where does the toxic solution go." Was it going down a storm drain etc. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

The boat yard I use has a special drainage system to recover water from the yard to prevent toxic bottom paint going into the environment from sanding and pressure washing.

Obviously it has to go somewhere, I meant it is preferable to the dust getting into the air and into your lungs or onto your skin and clothing.

I believe that is a requirement in my area (Huntington Beach, California).

Edited by - on

Bill Sloane
1st Mate

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USA
91 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2003 : 18:14:55

My boat is out of the water too. Gary put an ablative paint on it last year. How long does an ablative last? I was thinking I had to do it again, but maybe I don't. . . .

Bill
Suede Shoes No. 496 SK/SR

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Gary B.
Admiral

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USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2003 : 01:26:35

Hey, Bill: I tried pretty hard to do a good job on that bottom paint. Because it is a copolymer, it is designed to last even when the boat is taken out of the water then put in. Most conventional paints won't then still have biocide that is active. I am confident that the paint will still retard growth and sluff off as designed. I think you will be fine for another year or two at least. When you pull her, pressure wash and look for any places where the paint may be starting to chip, or if it has sluffed to the point that it has worn completely off. That is why some people do one color as a base, then two coats of another color. Then you can tell easily when the boat's paint has sluffed through. I did not use two colors on your boat, but she got 2 full coats over the hull and 3 at the waterline and on high use areas like the rudder.

I really don't think you have to worry. If memory serves, the bottom of Shoes was pretty smooth except for a few very small blisters. I fixed the bigger ones.....

Good luck, Bill. Getting ready to splash soon?

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR

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