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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Keel Drop step to step. bolts info

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jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/13/2016 : 10:52:32

Caption: 3/8 x 1 1/4 16 nc, National course threads per inch,* 9/16 head size, use medium Blue thread locker

You can see on the removed bolt the PO had incorrectly used white caulk to "seal" the bolts when screwed in. use blue thread locker.
The thread file can also be used to determine threads per inch count (TPI = reciprocal of pitch) these are 16 threads per inch, *Unified National Course (commonly stated as nc).**

Caption: For several days before attempting to remove bolts. Daily squirt penetrate up into top sides of hangers. Make a nozzle out of wire wrapped around a spray can plastic tube to get in space above bolts in hanger.

**Unified Thread Standard (UTS) is currently controlled by ASME/ANSI ...........jmc

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Edited by - jmczzz on 06/15/2016 10:32:17

jmczzz
1st Mate

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92 Posts

Response Posted - 06/13/2016 : 11:01:44

James Byrd posted this info on torque for these bolts/ Thought it might be good to have it here also.

"ok guys. I contacted Catalina Yachts and spoke to Warren Pandy in technical support. He was very helpful and got back to me in just two days. He said no one had ever questioned the 35 lb torque on the 3/8 bolts for the Cat 25 pivot hangers so some research was required with engineering. The following is verbatim from Mr. Pandy.

Jim,

I just got a call from Gerry Douglas. We also checked our current charts and he said you can go with the (20.6) or 21 ft/lb recommendation.

We suspect that over the years that more than a few owners have torqued theirs to the 35 ft/lbs. that the late 70�s manual shows, but due to the fact that the breaking strength is always much higher (usually a 2 or 2.5 factor) than the recommended torque value, that it has never been a problem.

However, since you have already torqued yours to 35 ft/lbs, you would not want to simply back them off by 10 to 14 ft/lbs as those bolts have already been �stretched� or taken a set to the 35 ft/lbs. If you do decide to re-do the torque # you should use new bolts and re-set those with Lock-Tite again.

Best regards,
Warren Pandy
Warren@catalinayachts.com

Note: Gerry Douglas is one of the engineers involved with the development of the C22 and C25 models and has been with Catalina since the 70's.

I will be replacing the bolts and torque them to 21 lbs. "

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Edited by - jmczzz on 06/13/2016 11:02:42

jmczzz
1st Mate

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92 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2016 : 10:53:56

Add another tool to your box for keel bolt maintenance: A thread chaser, this is used to clean the threads in the inserts in the keel housing where you screw in the keel bolts. These are NOT taps to cut threads. I shot some penetrate up in the holes then ran these in and out with fingers a few times. got the old stuff out of the threads.

this one is 3/8 x 16 same as keel hanger bolts.

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

jmczzz
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92 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2016 : 11:13:52

As my C 25 is on the home made modified trailer I had to lift the front end some to get enough clearance between front axle and keel bottom to let the keel go low enough to check out the hanger, pin and pivot hole.
I jacked it up and blocked it about 6 inches.
These are NOT cinder blocks but are heavier hollow blocks cast from cement, sand and crushed rock. weigh 40 lbs each. I got them from the manufactures seconds yard, cause they were the wrong color,(DIY load $.50 each). they are cross stacked 2 x 2 after digging out a level spot. One side for the bottle jack and one side for wood blocks.
also note the jack under the keel pivot to take the weight until the 4 threaded rods are in place. keel lift winch is all the way up. Also notice hard to see level on each side of double 4 x 6 beams under hull, wedges held in place by 2 x 4s nailed to top 4 x 6
****IMPORTANT PUT A JACK OR BLOCK UNDER THE BACK CROSS SUPPORT OF THE TRAILER TO KEEP IT FROM GOING DOWN WHILE LIFTING THE FRONT ON THE BOAT.**************

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

Edited by - jmczzz on 06/15/2016 11:37:49

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5896 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2016 : 11:15:48

This is good info. I wonder if it can be made a tech tip.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

jmczzz
1st Mate

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USA
92 Posts

Response Posted - 06/15/2016 : 11:29:41

My partner / wife helped me by working the starboard side. Me on the port. alternating backing off upper nuts 1/2 turn at a time until we had it down low enough to check it out. Forward, aft, forward, aft, etc, etc.

What a sweetheart!

See the post by Steve Milby for the details on setting up the threaded rods:
Past Commodore

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4637 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2016 : 05:38:13 Show Profile Email Poster Reply with Quote
This is the best description of the process I have been able to find. There are no photos, but you should be able to figure it out. If you do the job, please take photos and let us post the photos and text in our Tech Tips.

Once they have the boat hauled and chocked for you pull one of the keel hanger bolts out to get the thread size and pitch. If I remember correctly it is a 3/8 inch bolt with a standard coarse thread. I had a couple of various sized nuts that I used to thread on the bolt to make sure I had the correct size.

I then took the correct nut, after replacing the hanger bolt, to the hardware store and purchased regular zinc threaded rod in the same size using the nut to confirm that the rod is a match. I got enough rod to cut four sections about 3 feet long. I also got 4 3/8 inch flat washers and 4 5/8 inch washers. After cutting the rod, either clean up the thread with a file or just use the non-cut end.

Thread the nut on one end, then the 3/8 washer and then the 5/8 washer. Take out one hanger bolt and thread the rod in it's place. When you tighten the nut up flush you have the large washer against the shoe casting, then the 3/8 washer against the nut.

After replacing all four bolts with threaded rod you can now begin to lower the keel. Slack off the keel cable a few turns to give some clearance and then back of the nuts on the threaded rod by about 1/2 an inch. Use a cross pattern like you would on tire lugs. Having a helper with a second wrench makes it go easier.

As you drop the front of the keel, remember to drop the rear with the cable to keep enough clearance. You might need to encourage the shoe casting to release if there is a lot of paint build up, but I didn't.
Continue slowly until you have dropped it eough to do the work.

I would <b>strongly</b>encourage you to have the yard provide you with another bow stand to help support the keel when it is down on the rods or build a stack of 4x4 cribbing to support it. If you get a lot of side to side motion on the keel while sanding on it you could strss the threaded rod to the point of failure. Trust me when I say that 1500 lbs of iron is very unforgiving.

After you are done, reverse the process to replace the bolts. Once that is done, crank the keel down to the ground, or all the way down if it hangs free, to the point that the cable is slack. Now you can remove the cable and replace it and the turning ball as necessary.

The complete thread can be found here. http://catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=3188&SearchTerms=threaded
Steve Milby C&C 35 Landfall ("Captiva Wind"); Cal 25 ("Fahrvergn�gen")
Past Commodore

1978 C25 SK SR # 808

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