Association Forum - S.K. threaded rod instruct. needed

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

S.K. threaded rod instruct. needed

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

ddlyle
Captain

Member Avatar

302 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/10/2003 : 10:25:23

I've looked around and even emailed a fellow C25'er here who has used the "threaded rod" method of lowering the swing keel. Alas, my search has failed.
Can anyone find and email to me detailed instructions to lower the swing keel using threaded rods?
I surely don't look forward to doing this, but feel I must.
I presume one cannot access the top of the keel sufficiently within
the cabin in the "trunk" to remove rust and paint the top of the keel.

Also, any detailed instructions for replacing the cable would be appreciated also. (I need instructions 'cause I'm work-challenged.)
I have Catalina Direct's handbook, but any tips from other C25-er's would be appreciated.
I don't have a trailer. I'm having it hauled out in a few weeks and it'll be on stands in the parking lot of the yacht club.
Thanks a million.
Anyone wanna come work on it for me?<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
didn't think so.<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>

Cap'n Dave
Sailing The Blues
1986 C25 sr/sk #5413

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2003 : 12:07:46

I have not yet tried the keel-lowering trick yet, but it sounds simple enough: Replace the bolts one at a time with a long 12" or longer bolt with a washer and nut screwed up under the flange. When all are in place, start backing of the nuts and washers one at a time. I would only go about 1/4" or so at most, at first. The keel should slowly come down with those nuts. The big advantage is that you're all lined up when the time comes to put it back. Tighten the nuts and washers and force it back up. Personally, I would have a floor jack under the keel to support the weight. Lower IT a bit as the nuts are relaxed. In fact, I wouldn't do it any other way....In theory, it's a great idea; I just tried it once in practice and the flange seemed to jam a bit from pressure fore and aft and wouldn't actually lower all at once so I gave up.

I can reach a fair amount of the back edge of the keel by jacking the boat on the trailer and blocking her several inches above the rollers (in my EZLoader's case). Then lower the keel down to its resting spot. One can then access all but the very top edge of the aft end of the keel for sanding and painting....

The cable is a snap, generally (No pun intended). It comes off the keel with a pin and cotter pin....easy. On the three I have done in the last year, the turning ball was corroded on one and took some tapping to free the pin. Take off the old cable from the winch. Reattach the new one the same way, making sure the cable comes over the aft end of the new turning ball, keep some tension on the cable (2nd person underneath boat?) and voile, you are done. Be very careful to replace the rubber hose, seal and double clamp. Where are you located? I would help, if you're in my area at all.......(S.W. Washington/Portland, OR)

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR

Sorry, I just noticed the "no trailer" line. Be careful that you don't plan on the stands supporting the weight of the boat. Make sure the yard blocks the HULL fore and aft of the keel. The stands should just keep her upright. If she's secure, she should be easier to work on than on a trailer; you won't have to work around all that stuff. Make sure when they block the boat that you can still lower the keel several (6, maybe?) inches. Good luck....

Edited by - Gary B. on 04/10/2003 12:12:30

Edited by - on

svmoxie
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
331 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2003 : 12:15:56

Dave,

Once they have the boat hauled and chocked for you pull one of the keel hanger bolts out to get the thread size and pitch. If I remember correctly it is a 3/8 inch bolt with a standard coarse thread. I had a couple of various sized nuts that I used to thread on the bolt to make sure I had the correct size.

I then took the correct nut, after replacing the hanger bolt, to the hardware store and purchased regular zinc threaded rod in the same size using the nut to confirm that the rod is a match. I got enough rod to cut four sections about 3 feet long. I also got 4 3/8 inch flat washers and 4 5/8 inch washers. After cutting the rod, either clean up the thread with a file or just use the non-cut end.

Thread the nut on one end, then the 3/8 washer and then the 5/8 washer. Take out one hanger bolt and thread the rod in it's place. When you tighten the nut up flush you have the large washer against the shoe casting, then the 3/8 washer against the nut.

After replacing all four bolts with threaded rod you can now begin to lower the keel. Slack off the keel cable a few turns to give some clearance and then back of the nuts on the threaded rod by about 1/2 an inch. Use a cross pattern like you would on tire lugs. Having a helper with a second wrench makes it go easier.

As you drop the front of the keel, remember to drop the rear with the cable to keep enough clearance. You might need to encourage the shoe casting to release if there is a lot of paint build up, but I didn't.
Continue slowly until you have dropped it eough to do the work.

I would stronglyencourage you to have the yard provide you with another bow stand to help support the keel when it is down on the rods or build a stack of 4x4 cribbing to support it. If you get a lot of side to side motion on the keel while sanding on it you could strss the threaded rod to the point of failure. Trust me when I say that 1500 lbs of iron is very unforgiving.

After you are done, reverse the process to replace the bolts. Once that is done, crank the keel down to the ground, or all the way down if it hangs free, to the point that the cable is slack. Now you can remove the cable and replace it and the turning ball as necessary.

Where are you located? I would be glad to help if you are close...

Clif Thompson
Treasurer C-25/250 National Association.
svMoxie '81 25 sk

Edited by - on

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1889 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2003 : 13:44:38

Cap'n Dave,

I'm e-mailing you a photo of the all-thead method in use. I didn't realize I'd attached the hi-res version of the image until after I'd clicked [send]. Sorry about the long download time.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

Eric Dove
1st Mate

Members Avatar

37 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2003 : 16:54:18

Gary,

Just reading along and noticed your reply. How did you jack your boat off the trailer? Mine's an EZ loader too and I'd like to drop the keel enough to do these maintenance items. No way to do it without getting the boat up off the trailer a bit. I'd done something like that with a previous boat, but it was a very light 19' McGregor and I just used the wheel jack on the tongue in a series of positions...i.e. lower it, then put blocks under the raised stern, then raise it again, essestially lifting the boat by the bow off the trailer. Didn't think something like that would really work for this big of a boat.

Eric Dove on Adelaide

Edited by - on

Gary B.
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
969 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2003 : 06:15:08

Eric: I get nervous everytime I do this, but have done it a half a dozen times I suspect.

I have two big planks 4/10 or so that are about 5' long. I put them across the trailer frame just in front of the keel. Then, a jack goes on them, with a plywood piece as a cushion between the hull and jack ( I have a 2 ton floor jack). Release the bow cable to the winch and slowly jack it up a few inches at a time. As she goes up, I block the hull, first with 4/4 blocks placed between the hull and the metal stringer between the rollers. Then, I keep going up. I have made a carpet covered "pad" rather the size of a jack stand that I put in after I get higher than the 4/4. Yes, the boat is supported in only 3 places while the jack is raising it: one in front of the keel and the 2 sets of rollers aft.

When the "pads" shoved in between the hull and the metal stringers, I lower her down so she sits on the pads. Then, either the same planks, or two new ones, can be put on the back ot the trailer, from frame to frame. The aft end is pretty flat just behind the keel trunk. I use other planks on top of the 2 4/10s just to get a little closer to the hull. Again, a plywood square goes between the jack and the hull. Jack up the aft end of the boat with the bow now supported by the two pads you placed earlier. As soon as you get high enough to clear the rollers a few inches, place carpeted pads on the stringers just as you did for the bow, then lower the boat. Make sure the keel cable is loose enough that you are not lifting the keel weight along with the hull since the whole weight of the boat is now supported by these four 1' square pads (slightly larger would be better, as long as they fit between the sets of rollers).

At this point, I remove the rollers and tie up the metal "axles" so that I can work around them for sanding and painting.

I hope it is clear that the boat is always basically supported by the trailer itself (its frame). I do not trust the trailer jack to really lift the boat. I think its limit is 750 #. I hope it goes without saying that my trailer wheels are blocked very securely, and I actually take the weight off the jack stand and support the tongue with cribbing. I, someday, would like to rig a hoist of some type so that I can sling the boat out of its trailer, but, for now, this method has worked for me. I am always SO glad to finish and get her back down on the rollers!

I would be VERY careful about getting up on the boat when it is supported on just the pads. I am always nervous about adding too much weight for the surface area of the pads, but I suppose in reality it has just as much square inch support as on 32 little rollers! Go slow and be very careful when doing this. I do not accept liability if some one tries this and is unsuccessful! So far, I have had no problems, and the boat does not seem overly stressed (and I HAVE been aboard her when she's jacked up). I might say that I have used this method now on 2 different C25s but they were both 78 model swingers. There's a chance that newer boats might not be as strong. I did this once to a Hunter 23 that belonged to my boss and I thought the pads would go right through its flimsy hull!

Gary B.
Encore! #685 SK/SR

Edited by - on

ddlyle
Captain

Members Avatar

302 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2003 : 08:05:02

Thank you folks for all your info.
I am located on Hilton Head Isl., SC and beer and pizza are on me.<img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>

Cap'n Dave
Sailing The Blues
1986 C25 sr/sk #5413

Edited by - on

Eric Dove
1st Mate

Members Avatar

37 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2003 : 10:01:50

Thanks for the info Gary.....I'm definitely gonna give that a try. I have an outside chance of getting into a boatsling of an aquaintance of mine, but I've got a feeling he's gonna charge me. At some point in the next couple of seasons I'm going to completely redo the bottom, so I think I'll sling it then. Right now I just want to inspect/replace the SK parts and paint the spots where I couldn't get because of the rollers....this seems like it'll do the trick. Thanks again!

Eric Dove on Adelaide

Edited by - on

rclift
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2003 : 14:52:59

On my EZ loader Trailer I simply pull the boat 1 foot aft on the trailer to clear the rollers in order to paint the areas covered by the rollers or work on the keel. Leon told me about this method and perhaps he stills has the pictures. I attach one end of a come-along to the bow eye using a spare heavy duty line and the other end to one of the trailer braces near the axle. I release the winch and crank on the come-along to pull the boat back. It takes some significant effort to roll the boat even though it's over rollers. Just to be on the safe side I place a pair of jack stands under the rear of the trailer and block the wheels.

Ray Clift
Buzz 1361, Oregon

Edited by - on

Eric Dove
1st Mate

Members Avatar

37 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2003 : 16:40:27

I'm sure this is a completely paranoid question, but how far back do you suppose you can go before the boat's stability is in question? I'm sure it's a pretty good way, but it would seem I'd need more than a foot to clear the keel enough to lower it at all. I know physics would suggest it'd have to be pretty far back to get tippy at all, but it's hard not to envision the boat tipping off the back of the trailer.....I'm sure once I eyeball it, it won't seem so frightening.

Eric Dove on Adelaide

Edited by - on

rclift
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
152 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2003 : 17:32:19

I agree that it doesn't feel right pulling the boat aft like this but it is effective. I put the jack stands under the rear of the trailer nice and snug and so far there has been little movement. to gain room under the boat I remove the little keel rest plate and let the forward part of the keel rest on the brace in front of the axle. This way the keel stays in the trunk so there isn't any danger of it falling over and yet the keel is low enough to easily work on the pivot pin.<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3da30b3127cce967b98e1876f0000001610" border=0>

The keel at this point is lowered as far as I want it and is being held in place by the brace and floor jack.
Ray Clift
1361 Buzz
TR/SK

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2003 : 18:13:41

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>...how far back do you suppose you can go before the boat's stability is in question?...it's hard not to envision the boat tipping off the back of the trailer...<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

If I didn't block the rear of the trailer on my old much lighter boat, a Venture 25, and I climbed into the cockpit, the bow of the boat and trailer tongue would point skyward. Fortunately, I only did this a few times in the presence of spectators. <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>

<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>Don Lucier<img src="http://www.catalina25-250.org/c25sm.gif" border=0>
<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b2d904b3127cce9f7cd9ffdf1d0000003010" border=0>
North Star SR/FK

Edited by - dlucier on 04/11/2003 18:15:04

Edited by - on

IndyJim
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 04/14/2003 : 00:53:53

Don,

I too have "been there, done that" on my old Oday 192. I forgot the rear trailer supports, got excited, climbed up the swim ladder, felt a funny sensation, and when I finally got in the cockpit and looked forward, I saw the sky! Thank goodness the Oday had a kick up rudder! Then I sat there trying to figure out how I was going to let the tongue down easy.

Ray,

I am very pleased to see someone else with bottom paint all over their rollers on the trailer. My trailer is in good condition but looks like crap because of the plethora of coats of blue bottom paint. Come to think of it, my driveway has some remnants of that wonderful anti-fouling stuff too! :)

BTW, "Itza Dew Sea" went in the water today. Five months of withdrawl and today I got my sailing "fix"! I've gotta move south and get away from this cold and snow!

Fair Winds!

Jim
"Itza Dew Sea"
'84 SK/TR #8525

Edited by - on

JoergK
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
140 Posts

Response Posted - 04/15/2003 : 12:57:02

Dave,
I did that rod thing last year and it went fairly smooothly. I strongly agree with Clif in that it is advisable to restrain the keel from moving sidewards AND also back and forth (that could happen when you lower it a lot). The rods could bend, as two did in my case, and that causes a little problem.
Note: since you lower it anyway, you might as well inspect the pin that holds the keel, and the castings. My pin was bent, courtesy of the previous owner.

Joerg
86C25 SR-SK Second Wind

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.