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Fairlead Recommendation

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RAG Sailor
Navigator

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USA
144 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/17/2015 : 20:23:45

Can anyone recommend a fairlead to be used behind my headsail sheet cam cleat. Okay, call me cheap. The right way to do it would be to replace the cam cleat that is there now with a one piece cam cleat-fairlead combination. However at @ $35-$45 a piece (2 needed), I would think placing a solo fairlead behind the cleat would work just fine. I'm tired of chasing the lazy sheet after coming about. (If you look at the picture below/right you can see the cam cleat -partially obscured by the bimini pole) Suggestions?

Good to be back at sea!

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5894 Posts

Response Posted - 06/17/2015 : 21:35:16

Personally, I'd get rid of the fairleads. Fairleads invite hockles, which prevent clean tacks. The side benefit is that cleats without fairleads are cheaper than ones with.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9074 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2015 : 08:59:28

How would you winch the sheet with a fairlead either on a cleat or ahead of it??

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Derek Crawford
Master Marine Consultant

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3321 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2015 : 09:19:10

Maybe your jib sheets are a little short. If long enough the lazy sheet stays either within the cockpit or at least within easy reach.

Derek Crawford
Chief Measurer C25-250 2008
Previous owner of "This Side UP"
1981 C-25 TR/FK #2262 Used to have an '89 C22 #9483, "Downsized"
San Antonio, Texas

RAG Sailor
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144 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2015 : 10:39:04

Thanks guys. I don't think I explained my situation well enough. I know it is called a fairlead but what I am looking to do is put the fairlead behind the jam cleat so the order would be this: jib/genoa sheet goes though the moveable block to the winch and then the jam cleat. It's after that point that I would put a small fairlead so that I would put the line through it and tie a figure eight on the end. This way when the line is released to tack (and everyone is paying attention to the leeward side, the sheet doesn't go flying out of the cockpit and have to be retrieved. I keep a figure eight on them anyway so that it doesn't pull through the block.

When I took my ASA course last year, the instructor's boat was set up that way and I thought it real convenient. He may have just used a stainless U-shaped clamp, which can look like a fairlead. Right now my first mate (the "A" of RAG Sail) needs to remember to jam the end of the sheet into the cleat so that when she's done she can just take the excess and store it in the storage compartment just below. Believe me, there is plenty of line but on a real windy day when the sail is whipping during the turn, that sheet can get pulled.

I hope that makes more sense. If anyone else has another suggestion, I'm open to it too. Thanks y'all!

Good to be back at sea!

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9074 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2015 : 12:52:18

Ahhh... I had the original horn cleats by the winches, put the bitter end of each sheet through the throat of the horn cleat, and tied a figure-8 stopper. Also, after winching the sheet, I would hook it under a horn of the cleat and then snap it into a cam cleat that was positioned for doing that--an alternative to having a riser for the cam to put it high enough for the tail coming off the winch.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/18/2015 12:58:25

RAG Sailor
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144 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2015 : 12:59:49

Jeeeeze, staring me right in the face! Sometimes the obvious isn't so obvious!! Now, if only if I could find my glasses. I had them a few minutes ago!

Good to be back at sea!

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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4017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2015 : 13:41:46

Honestly I never have had my jib sheets leave the cockpit, I think like Derek said above that yours are a little short. Having a fair lead after the winch IMO would be problematic. In a tack I might be in various places in the cockpit putting the sheet on different angles. I wouldn't want the extra friction/drag. I haven't used a winch handle yet on the jib sheets. I Put 2 wraps on the lazy winch, start to tack and haul as fast as you can as soon as the sail starts to flog. If you time the tack by slowing it down a little you should have enough time to haul in the line to where you need it. If you do need to tighten it up some just head up into the wind until the sail starts to flog a little and the pressure is off the line then tighten it up, Lock it down and resume your course. Now if your racing you wouldn't do this and would use the winch handle.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Edited by - islander on 06/18/2015 13:49:00

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9074 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2015 : 15:22:11

I can't say I ever had the problem either--it just seemed like a simple bit of insurance to use the cleat and a stopper knot. It didn't affect how I handled the sheet with or without the winch--it was plenty long. In my picture above, with the genoa rolled up with a few turns of the sheet around it, the starboard sheet is coming off the winch to the cam cleat, dangling over the coaming and then back up to the horn cleat where the stopper is. Of course, if my genoa had been bigger than a 130, then the sheets would have been even longer.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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4017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2015 : 15:54:09

I forgot to mention that I have self tailers so being that I don't have a cam cleat or the horn cleat things might be different with me.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

Voyager
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5345 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2015 : 21:33:27

I never use the winches for the jib, on a tack I just release the old jib sheet while pulling on the new sheet. I can always harden the jib sheet until it stops luffing - even on a close reach. Am I doing something wrong?

Bruce Ross
Passage ~ SR-FK ~ C25 #5032

Port Captain � Milford, CT

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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5894 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2015 : 05:16:51

quote:
Originally posted by Voyager

I never use the winches for the jib, on a tack I just release the old jib sheet while pulling on the new sheet. I can always harden the jib sheet until it stops luffing - even on a close reach. Am I doing something wrong?

IMO, whatever works for you isn't wrong, but there are other ways to do it. When the wind is blowing hard and the jibsheet is heavily loaded and bar taut, it's hard to make small adjustments to the jibsheet without standing up and using the leverage of your body weight. In a heavy chop, it isn't easy to stand up in the cockpit of a small boat. With the aid of the winches and the winch handle, you can make those adjustments while seated. I used to sail my Catalina 25, sitting on the leeward side, using one hand to turn the winch handle, tailing the jibsheet with the other hand (my boat didn't have self-tailers), and steering with my ankle. My boat had two-speed winches, and there were times when I needed the high power, low-speed to be able to make those adjustments.

Without the aid of winches, I suspect most people would find it difficult to trim the 155 or 130 as flat as it needs to be to keep the boat on it's feet in 15-18 kt winds. Cruisers are often likely to reduce sail area when the wind pipes up like that (which is the seamanlike thing to do), but racers often do the unseamanlike thing and continue racing with too much sail area, simply because it would take too much time to change sails.

People with less physical strength can also trim the jib by using the winches to augment their strength.

You really don't need winches in light air, but in strong winds, and as the size of the boat increases, they become a necessity.

Steve Milby J/24 "Captiva Wind"
previously C&C 35, Cal 25, C25 TR/FK, C22
Past Commodore

OLarryR
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Response Posted - 06/19/2015 : 08:25:04

The self tailing winches work fine for me. Like Bruce, I trim in mostly as I tack and then wrap around the winch and with the tension, pull the genoa lead at mid-cockpit point to trim the rest of the way, then use the self-tailer to lock in. If the wind is blowing considerably, then I just wrap around the first winch one turn and then a couple of turns around the other winch holds it for most wind conditions.

Larry
'89 Robin's Nest#5820, Potomac River/Quantico, Va
http://catalina25.homestead.com/olarryr.html

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9074 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2015 : 10:31:30

quote:
Originally posted by OLarryR

If the wind is blowing considerably, then I just wrap around the first winch one turn and then a couple of turns around the other winch holds it for most wind conditions.

I take it you're "cross-sheeting" so you're controlling the sheet on the windard winch... (?) I tried it and decided there was too much messing around on a tack, although I suppose practice helps.

Dave Bristle
Association "Port Captain" for Mystic/Stonington CT
PO of 1985 C-25 SR/FK #5032 Passage, USCG "sixpack" (expired),
Now on Eastern 27 $+!nkp*+ Sarge

rdthoms
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2015 : 14:01:15

Be careful of fairleads if they are not really needed. An accidental knot or tangle in the sheet will obviously get stuck in the fairlead and if it happens at the wrong time and wrong conditions it could be hard to clear quickly.

Richard
Huntsville, AL
1984 Catalina 25 SR/FK #4309

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2015 : 15:15:56

It really sounds like you may be over-complicating this whole thing.

I sailed our C25 for 13 years on San Francisco Bay, with a 110 during winter and an 85% during the windier summertime breezes.

I put on Winchers, couldn't afford self-tailers, but the Winchers worked great. Never bothered with the horn cleats.

No Winchers on our C22, just used the horn cleats.

Jib sheets need to be long enough to release the new lazy sheet and have them STAY in the cockpit, then just fake or flake 'em on the seat after two wraps around the winch getting ready for the next tack.

Stu
1986 C34 #224 "Aquavite"
Cowichan Bay, BC Maple Bay Marina
(formerly San Francisco)
(formerly C25 #2459 "Capricorn Two")

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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4017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2015 : 16:35:40

quote:
Jib sheets need to be long enough to release the new lazy sheet and have them STAY in the cockpit, then just fake or flake 'em on the seat after two wraps around the winch getting ready for the next tack.

That about sums it up. Putting the 2 raps around the now lazy winch is the very last thing I do after a tack, The sheet isn't going anywhere if you train yourself to do that and its ready to go for the next tack.

Scott-"IMPULSE"87'C25/SR/WK/Din.#5688
Sailing out of Glen Cove,L.I Sound

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