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 Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums
 General Sailing Forum
 Brummel vs bury splice in Dyneema et al.		  New Topic  Topic Locked
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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts
Initially Posted - 12/19/2013 :  13:59:29  Show Profile
Just read a short piece from Chicago Rigging that compared recommended (72x dia.) and a non specified short bury splice with a brummel in dyneema. With tongue in cheek, I'll give the bad news - the brummel was weakest of the three. The good news? The brummel was about as strong as the <u>rated</u> strength of the dyneema. I still like the aesthetics of buried splices, but it doesn't appear to really matter for function.

Dave B. aboard Pearl
1982 TR/SK/Trad. #3399
Lake Erie/Florida Panhandle
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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts
Response Posted - 12/19/2013 :  14:18:21  Show Profile
Do you have a link to the story, or can you give a little more details?

Did they do the brummel with long and short bury, or only a short bury? A brummel isn't to allow you to get away with a short bury, it just lets you eliminate lockstitching.
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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 12/19/2013 :  15:41:56  Show Profile
I am sooo ignorant.
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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts
Response Posted - 12/19/2013 :  20:10:21  Show Profile
Keep in mind that this is a single test of used, 1/8" dyneema with professional riggers doing the splices, but it is still very impressive. I initially read an excerpt, but I found the full article: http://www.chicagoyachtrigging.com/tag/dyneema/
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Chief RA
Chief Technical Advisor

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191 Posts
Response Posted - 12/20/2013 :  07:46:07  Show Profile
That article was very informative about the inline splicing concept. I use the cross looping splice in braid but this Brummel seems to be a prettier splice and all sailors love that. Chief (leaving for Arizona for the winter in about a week)
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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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1144 Posts
Response Posted - 12/20/2013 :  12:13:54  Show Profile
Interesting that the brummel broke at the end of the bury. Without repeated testing or individual testing (instead of this tug of war) I think it is impossible to really say which splice is more reliable.

Failure shown here:
http://www.chicagoyachtrigging.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/long.jpg

It could be that the tapering was just slightly better on this particular buried eye splice.
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Merit 25
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 12/21/2013 :  09:41:35  Show Profile  Visit Merit 25's Homepage
There is no difference in strength between the locking brummel splice and a straight bury. The only reason people do it is to save on time for lock stitching. You don't need to lock stitch a brummel splice, but most put a whipping on it anyway. The brummel doesn't take (and shouldn't take) any of the load.

The 72x the diameter is there to supply enough friction on the slippery line for it to hold.

I agree with awetmore, more testing is needed before making a statement as to which one is stronger. But the moral of the story is, that a proper splice breaks at the lines rated strength in most cases.
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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts
Response Posted - 12/21/2013 :  12:55:18  Show Profile
Yep. P/S tested splices and knots some time ago and generally found that good, buried splices come close to line strength. I liked this article because it had a brummel in the mix. The caveats I mentioned certainly limit the value, but all splices holding to the vicinity of line strength seems suggestive.

Edit: it doesn't matter to me if the line fails or the splice fails as long as it is close to the rated line strength.
Edited by - Dave5041 on 12/21/2013 12:57:27
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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts
Response Posted - 01/05/2014 :  09:23:36  Show Profile
There has been much more useful testing going on over at Sailing Anarchy. Results are published here:
http://www.bethandevans.com/load.htm

By much more useful I mean they are doing repeated tests and in a variety of types of line. Lots of raw data and some interesting and good conclusions. A new knot was also discovered that doesn't slip in dyneema.
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