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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Dangling shroud

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iwillnotsubmit
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/02/2013 : 07:02:57

Yesterday I was having a great day of sailing, 10-15 kt winds. Everything was going smooth until I had just started a port tack and heard a crashing sound. It sounded like the icebox lid came off and slid to the floor. After getting the lines squared away after the tack, I looked into the cabin to try and determine what caused the commotion. Everything seemed to be in order when a dangling shroud on the port side caught my attention. Whoaaa!!! I headed up into the wind and furled the 150 very quickly, then let the main halyard run as I jumped up onto the cabin top to finish securing the main sail. Jumped back into the cockpit to start the outboard and headed back to my slip. It was the lower, forward, port side shroud that was dangling. Upon securing the boat in the slip, I was able to see what had happened. The chain plate was still securely attached to the deck, but the 1/4" pin that connects the chain plate to the toggle was gone. I found the cotter pin on the deck and it was intact, so I guess the pin broke. Has anyone ever experienced this? All the standing rigging was replaced in the spring of 2012 and I am in fresh water. The winds at the time of the tack were probably less than 10 knts as I was partially in the lee of an island. I am worried that it might happen again, but to an upper shroud and might lead to a dismasting. Any thoughts?

1980 Catalina 25 TR, FK, Traditional. Sailing on the Mississippi River, Portage Des Souix, MO.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2013 : 08:09:27

I've never heard of a clevis pin on a C25 shroud breaking, and it's hard to imagine it happening. I suspect the cotter pin wasn't spread enough to make it secure.

It isn't a frequent occurrence, although it did happen to my boat once in 23 years, so I'd replace the clevis pin and use a new cotter pin, and check all the others to be sure the cotter pins are properly spread and secure. When that's done just check them once or twice a year, and don't worry about it.

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iwillnotsubmit
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2013 : 08:19:34

The cotter pins were of the correct size and properly installed. About 2 weeks ago I readjusted all shrouds to the proper tension and inspected all the lower pins. In addition the cotter pin in question was found on the deck and was intact. The clevis pin must have went overboard as I did not find it. I am glad it was a lower shroud as an upper shroud failing with full sails could be bad.

Edited by - on

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2013 : 08:33:20

Sounds like the clevis pin had broken at the eye, dropping the cotter pin, and it worked its way out. It may have been sitting partially out, holding only one side of the toggle, until the jostling of tacking brought it to the stage where the load as the wind filled your rig finally overwhelmed it. For clues, check for wear on one side of the chainplate eye. More importantly, check the spread of the toggle; if the two sides are flared away from each other, rather than parallel, they were putting a strain on the clevis pin and cotter pin by trying to spread. The clevis pin is designed only for transverse shear strength and not for stress at the eye. Check also the cotter pin for rust stains; stainless steel can rust, weakening it substantially with little or no easily discernable evidence. Finally, consider replacing the rest of your clevis pins (top and bottom) with hardware from a reputable marine chandlery. We're being flooded by cheap, imported hardware made of low-grade material, and high-risk locations like this demand no compromise on quality. You got lucky this time, and any of us who've had similar near-misses can appreciate the shock you felt when this happened. At least you've gotten a good story out of it. And you've gotten a bit more confidence and satisfaction in being able to manage the challenges that can arise during sailing - sure beats sitting at home in front of the TV.

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iwillnotsubmit
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2013 : 08:43:32

I did an inspection the chain plate and the toggle. The chain plate did not appear to have any unusual wear and except for the slight bend the toggle was in good shape too. I bent the toggle back and used a new spare clevis pin and cotter pin to replace the shroud for now. I will replace the toggle asap. Yes a good story and I think I reacted well to a possibly dangerous situation. I usually single hand and must be prepared for anything. I think that replacing all the clevis pins and cotter pins will happen asap as well, for my peace of mind.

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iwillnotsubmit
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2013 : 08:48:49

Dave, yes the cotter pin was completely intact, not even a noticeable scratch was seen and it was bent exactly like all the others. I was surprised when I found the cotter pin as I had suspected it had failed and not the clevis pin, but the evidence seems to point to a clevis pin failure. Hopefully it was a rare defect and will not be repeated in the future for me or anyone else.

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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1511 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2013 : 09:05:04

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">but the 1/4" pin that connects the chain plate to the toggle was gone.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Are the clevis pins 1/4" ? I thought all the clevis pins on the shrouds were 5/16" ??

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2013 : 09:08:08

Ya, I deleted my reply after a little further thought... The holes in clevis pins can be very close to the end of the pin, and "crevice corrosion" (virtually invisible in stainless) could weaken the pin at the thin spots around the hole after 25+ years. One corner could have broken off, at which point the rest of the tip could have bent next to the hole until it broke off completely.

New pins are cheap insurance. New chainplates are somewhat less cheap, but again, crevice corrosion can get them--particularly where they are sealed inside the deck so that oxygen doesn't get to them. (Stainless needs oxygen to keep it from corroding.) If I still had my '85, I'd have replaced the upper shroud chainplates by now. CD has 'em...

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 11/02/2013 09:10:02

iwillnotsubmit
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2013 : 09:32:20

Davy J, You could be right, I didn't measure them I just eye-balled them at the dock. Stinkpotter, all standing rigging was replaced spring 2012 from CD, including all clevis pins and chain plates. The cotter pins were new as of April 2013 when I spashed in the spring.

Edited by - iwillnotsubmit on 11/02/2013 09:34:13

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2013 : 10:05:07

Good for you! That just makes this more mysterious...

BTW, I used cotter rings in my clevis pins--cotter pins only to lock the turnbuckles (for which I used bronze to make them easier to bend back so they didn't grab anything).

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2013 : 10:46:55

Was the cotter the right size? Did it's head pull through the hole? Sheets can yank pretty hard when caught buy a cotter hook. No rigging tape involved I assume.
I know I do a horrible job about matching pins to clevis, hell I do a lousy job of matching clevis to toggles!

Edited by - pastmember on 11/02/2013 10:48:04

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2013 : 11:53:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 ...Did it's head pull through the hole? Sheets can yank pretty hard when caught buy a cotter hook...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Hmmm--that could be it! Another advantage to cotter rings--no nasty "hooks", and no head to pull through the hole.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2013 : 16:13:38

Cotter rings can have problems too. Last weekend I had a sheet catch on one recently and pull it out. A few minutes later the related clevis pin came out and my mainsheet came off of the traveller. Thankfully this happened as we were on our way back in. It would have been a lot worse a few minutes earlier when we were going downwind in 25 knot winds.

Taping over the ring probably would have helped both of us.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 11/02/2013 : 21:18:24

I switched to rings before Pearl and have seen no reason to go back.

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pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2013 : 07:53:35

I use tape. I don't care for rings much unless it is for things like purchase shackles and such. For standing rigging I like pins and tape.

Edited by - on

iwillnotsubmit
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2013 : 08:27:25

Update. I went back out to the boat to do some cleaning yesterday and found the broken clevis pin, it was in the space between the anchor locker lid and the deck. All the clevis pins I got from CD have the hole for the cotter pin drilled very close to the end of the pin. This is where it broke, right at the hole for the cotter pin. That is why the cotter pin was intact. I do have rigging tape covering the turnbuckles, but did not for anything else. I think I will be looking to replace all the clevis pins soon.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/03/2013 : 08:55:42

I think I would tell CD, they care and may want to change suppliers... probably Garhauer. Some of my best clevis have a flying H on the head, Hobie.

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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1144 Posts

Response Posted - 11/03/2013 : 14:10:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by iwillnotsubmit
 Update. I went back out to the boat to do some cleaning yesterday and found the broken clevis pin, it was in the space between the anchor locker lid and the deck. All the clevis pins I got from CD have the hole for the cotter pin drilled very close to the end of the pin. This is where it broke, right at the hole for the cotter pin.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Interesting. I think you'll find that most clevis pins are drilled that way. I just checked my favorite supplier (Fisheries Supply in Seattle) and they show both cheap (Sea Dog Line) and high quality (CS Johnson and Schaefer) clevis pins drilled that way. You can see it here:
http://www.fisheriessupply.com/sitesearch.aspx?keyword=clevis%20pin

Clevis pins are not meant to support loads along their major axis, only perpendicular to that. The small shoulder, hole near the end, and soft cotter pins all demonstrate that. I wonder what was causing enough load along the major axis on your boat to pull the cotter ring through the end of the pin and break it?

Did the pin shear at the hole, or did the hole burst through the end of the pin?

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2013 : 06:43:36

I noticed the holes in the OEM clevis pins were very small, and I replaced them with new clevis pins that had bigger holes..

Hmmm... no wonder the OEMs had small holes.

Edited by - on

Merrick
Navigator

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USA
192 Posts

Response Posted - 11/05/2013 : 12:32:12

I'm going to inspect my rigging this weekend again. Seems like the clevis pin had to slip over to the cotter pin edge somehow ... I can see if the rigging is too loose that the pin could slip when it's hanging loose on the leeward side.(?) Time to check tension again also.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/06/2013 : 05:11:17

Something like this happened to my father once when they were offshore at night crossing to Tampa on a Catalina 30. Downwind shroud. He said it came unscrewed, but I'm not sure exactly what happened. I've seen in once on a Southcoast 22. The clevis pin was still in but the cotter pin was gone on the backstay. I like to make a slow visual over the rigging ever so often. Make myself carefully look at each shroud and the connections.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1773 Posts

Response Posted - 11/28/2013 : 07:23:37

Many years ago with a former boat I had a similar experience only it was noticed after the boat rode through a hurricane at mooring. Salt vs fresh water makes a difference as well to metallurgical integrity. The real lesson here is to check our standing rigging -- no matter how new -- frequently and have respect for the loads that pins, swages, cotter pins/rings, etc, are under with an eye toward replacing more frequently, especially the "little parts" that connect everything together.

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 11/28/2013 : 09:53:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redeye
 Something like this happened to my father once when they were offshore at night crossing to Tampa on a Catalina 30. Downwind shroud. He said it came unscrewed, but I'm not sure exactly what happened...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Possibly the turnbuckle, which is particularly an issue with the closed-body crap Catalina uses (or used). If a lock-nut loosens, you can lose the mast. I almost did on another boat.

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 11/28/2013 : 10:40:29

Had a shroud come loose a few years back. I ran a rather loose rig and the lee side shrouds were always flapping when under a good breeze. I now run a tighter rig and the flapping of the shrouds and stays is much less noticeable. I also maintain a closer eye on the conditon of the pins. I surmised the movement of the shroud eventually led to failure of the clevis allowing the pin to work loose. I found the pin laying on the deck.

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Merrick
Navigator

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USA
192 Posts

Response Posted - 12/03/2013 : 15:50:19

Inspection discovered a bent toggle strap(?) and also something I haven't noticed, 2-3 different sizes of clevis pins .
It's always something. But at least a simple cure this time.

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