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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

roller trailer questions

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michael.j.wenger
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/23/2013 : 15:46:25

All -- I have a roller trailer for my '80 C25 SK/TR and have a couple of questions about the best way to get the boat onto the trailer. I've done this twice so far, with reasonable success (no YouTube videos ... yet), but see some improvements as possible.

There seems to be a split in opinion as to how deep the trailer should be to retrieve the boat. One line suggests getting the trailer deep, floating the boat as far forward as possible, then letting the boat settle on and center as the trailer is pulled from the water. The second line suggests keeping the trailer shallow (water just at the rollers), bringing the boat just onto the rollers, then winching the boat on the rest of the way.

For the first approach, it seems that a tongue extender would be a good thing to have. For the second, it seems that a properly-sized electric winch would be a good addition.

All thoughts, suggestions, opinions, and rants are most appreciated, and thank you in advance!

-Michael

Michael Wenger
Norman OK (Lake Thunderbird)
"Sea of Tea" (SK/TR)

Edited by - on

MrKawfey
Navigator

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USA
124 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2013 : 18:49:36

Michael, I can tell you from experience that the more you "roll" the boat onto the trailer, the easier it is to get centered. The reason the trailer has wheels in the first place is to allow the boat to be rolled forward and backward. If you float the boat over the trailer and it is not centered it will not slide sideways on the wheels and center itself. The wheels are rubber and there is a lot of friction with the boat hull when sliding.

I need to do a trailer rebuild this summer and I was considering an electric winch for exactly the same reason.

Edited by - on

MrKawfey
Navigator

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USA
124 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2013 : 18:50:07

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2013 : 19:31:46

When bow eyes were installed on the C25, the backing block was placed inside the cabin liner - resulting the eye moving fore and aft as the liner flexed. Because of that flaw, I would choose a method that places the least amount of stress (and repeated stresses) on the bow eye.

FWIW, I cut an opening in the liner and placed the backing block directly against the hull. Bow eye is now solid and doesn't move - at all.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 07/23/2013 : 20:31:49

I "drive" at a couple of knots aligned with the trailer centerline. Coasting as I close on the trailer, she centers well and stops as the bow rides up out of the water. I usually only have to winch a couple of feet after pulling up to level ground.

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michael.j.wenger
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2013 : 20:34:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 I "drive" at a couple of knots aligned with the trailer centerline. Coasting as I close on the trailer, she centers well and stops as the bow rides up out of the water. I usually only have to winch a couple of feet after pulling up to level ground.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dave: many thanks, and thanks to all-- the advice is much appreciated. One additional question, though: When the hull seats on the rear-most set of rollers, the keel rests on a center platform and backs up against a trailer cross-member (see the pic). So the keel has to float above that cross member when launching or retrieving. Given that, is it correct that rolling onto the front rollers should center the boat, with the boat settling onto the rear rollers as the trailer is pulled out of the water?

Edited by - on

michael.j.wenger
1st Mate

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USA
45 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2013 : 20:35:18

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by michael.j.wenger
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 I "drive" at a couple of knots aligned with the trailer centerline. Coasting as I close on the trailer, she centers well and stops as the bow rides up out of the water. I usually only have to winch a couple of feet after pulling up to level ground.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Dave: many thanks, and thanks to all-- the advice is much appreciated. One additional question, though: When the hull seats on the rear-most set of rollers, the keel rests on a center platform and backs up against a trailer cross-member (see the pic). So the keel has to float above that cross member when launching or retrieving. Given that, is it correct that rolling onto the front rollers should center the boat, with the boat settling onto the rear rollers as the trailer is pulled out of the water?

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Link to the picture:
https://plus.google.com/photos/100712216928170440590/albums/5909586225154826321?authkey=CPXUrdLIzazQGQ

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 08/07/2013 : 22:07:51

It depends on how deep the stern of the trailer is. The stern of the boat will drop as the bow rises and usually contact the aft rollers, but it doesn't really matter when it happens as you describe. Take it slow when you first do it to gauge the inertia, even if you have to winch it a bit farther until you get a feel for it. Leave adequate slack in the winch strap or cable in case the stern is floating and pull out slowly so the boat doesn't roll back. Don't forget to lower the keel onto the pad when you get to level ground.

Edited by - Dave5041 on 08/07/2013 22:10:23

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2013 : 08:18:47

I found access to the boweye behind the forepeak door. I used teak wedges that were shaped well for the job. The original piece of wood used by Catalina had rotted away. I considered using a large hardwood dowel.

Edited by - pastmember on 08/09/2013 16:08:16

Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2013 : 15:38:07

Michael; After looking at the photo you posted I noticed that the main fore-&-aft beams that carry your roller assemblies do not pivot themselves. I think it would be a mistake to try to winch the boat onto your trailer without floating it as far forward as possible first. There is a lot of variation in the hull shape forward, and the roller assemblies need to articulate to a substantial degree to distribute the load evenly to all rollers. I presume you have the same configuration at the aft assemblies, although I can't tell from the picture.

I launch and retrieve my SK Cat25 pretty much every weekend, and the local ramp can have a stiff cross-breeze on a typical summer afternoon, so there are times I just can't get the hull flat - the windage on the bare mast and everything else above the waterline tends to heel the boat slightly and even shifting some heavy items inside, and even with my girlfriend sitting on the windward side (not that THAT makes any difference... OK dear) sometimes isn't enough to level the boat as it positions itself on the trailer. I have to winch the boat the last five, feet even with my truck rims just below the surface, but I can assure you that the boat does NOT rotate axially. On the other hand, when I don't have much cross wind, the boat centers nicely every time.

So, based on my personal experience (others may have different conditions) I would not be concerned about having to roll the boat onto the trailer to center it; it will center itself as well as it's going to as the weight transfers from the water to the rollers. Get the trailer as deep as you safely can, and don't put any more stress on the cable and bow-eye than necessary. If you're using a manual winch, your head is pretty much right in line with the cable, and if the swage, the hook or the bow-eye gives way that cable is gonna snap right back at you!

By the way, I've gone through two Powerwinch RC30 electric winches in well under a year. The manufacture has been good about sending me replacements but I'm reluctant to even take this third one out of the box. In both cases the internal gears stripped. They have a nice, powerful motor, but the gears are incapable of handling the torque that the motor can deliver; lousy design. I do have to admit I really liked them when they were working, especially with the radio-controlled switch that I can keep on my person as I move around checking everything as the boat comes up, but I may end up selling this third winch and devising something from an off-roaders' store. In the meantime, my trusty two-speed Fulton winch (http://www.etrailer.com/p-FT32050301.html) has been a champ. It's quite a load on my 65 year old arms, but it gets the job done; a little grease on the sliding parts helped a lot.

Good luck, Michael. You'll learn shortcuts and things to watch out for as you get more experience. I've certainly learned from a few mistakes, but as I said I launch and retrieve almost every weekend and I don't see myself renting a berth anytime soon.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2013 : 17:20:07

Try using a pulley block so you can double the line and get a 2:1 ratio. Might save the gears from stripping.

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Lee Panza
Captain

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USA
465 Posts

Response Posted - 08/11/2013 : 19:53:40

Thanks for the suggestion, Gary; the RC30 actually comes with block, but it doesn't have anyplace to run the hook back to if one wanted to use it. Like most trailers, mine is set up so the winch is right where the bow-eye ends up, so both legs of the tackle have to be close together.

The other problem is that while a 2:1 system does, indeed, split the load evenly between the two legs it also reduces the retrieval speed by half as well. When I'm manually cranking I don't grow impatient even if it might take longer! But you're right, and I should try to come up with something.

Still, as an Engineer myself, it really annoys me when a manufacturer adds power, as a marketing feature, without designing the rest of the mechanism to be able to handle that power.

Thanks again for the helpful thought, Gary.

Edited by - Lee Panza on 08/11/2013 19:59:15

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2013 : 18:46:40

Those trucks articulate.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2013 : 18:55:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Lee Panza
 Thanks for the suggestion, Gary; the RC30 actually comes with block, but it doesn't have anyplace to run the hook back to if one wanted to use it. Like most trailers, mine is set up so the winch is right where the bow-eye ends up, so both legs of the tackle have to be close together.

The other problem is that while a 2:1 system does, indeed, split the load evenly between the two legs it also reduces the retrieval speed by half as well. When I'm manually cranking I don't grow impatient even if it might take longer! But you're right, and I should try to come up with something.

Still, as an Engineer myself, it really annoys me when a manufacturer adds power, as a marketing feature, without designing the rest of the mechanism to be able to handle that power.

Thanks again for the helpful thought, Gary.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Maybe you could use it with the block until the last 6 - 8" then switch to single line to snug it up.

Might take longer to winch it up with a block but it beats stripping out the gears with the boat halfway on the trailer!

Can you weld a loop on the winch stand just below the winch to anchor the hook to when setup with the block?

Totally agree with you when a manufacturer under-designs something.

Edited by - GaryB on 08/12/2013 19:01:05

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