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C250 Difference in Model years

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oregonworld
1st Mate

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USA
68 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/08/2012 : 09:05:45

I am looking at buying a 250 and am looking at 1997, 2001, 2006 models in my area.

I know that the rudder has been upgraded and options that came available after 2001.

Can anyone tell me are there any other major differences that would make a decision as to which one to buy. If given they are are all selling for fair market value, all are in good condition and are about $3k price difference between each of them.

Most importantly, What are the issues with the BackStay configurations? Should that be a concern. I would prefer a configuration that is easy to maneuver around the wheel.

When did the backstay changes occur?

Thanks,

jared

Jared Cruce
1997 250WK "Inspiration"
#299
Honda 9.9
Ashland, OR

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 09/08/2012 : 10:42:08

I can only speak for the wing keel version. If the deal is right I would go for the 2001 or 2006 because they have the improved rudder (3rd generation). If the boat has wheel steering those newer models will also have the pull/pull version which is better than the earlier push/pull setup. Plus, the newer the boat the better shape it should be in (sails, etc.) and the less maintenance it should need. I think only the 2006 might have the single backstay which is a great improvement. I did convert my double backstay and it is not hard to do if the boat doesn't have the single stay.

Where will you have the boat?

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 09/08/2012 : 12:54:43

In 1998 Catalina started molding a footstep into the cockpit gunwales. This is a huge improvement for me, because I have short finger piers that require me to back into my slip and board into the cockpit. The step up from the floating pier to the cockpit is made much easier with the molded step. This may be a plus for you, depending on how you plan to board the boat.

Also at about the same time, Catalina converted the Princess cooktop from compressed butane to LPG. This resulted in a slight loss of storage because the LP tank takes up virtually all of the starboard cockpit locker. But it is a safety upgrade, and a nice convenience if you plan to use the galley stove a lot. However, the butane fuel canisters can be found at a very reasonable price online, so it's not a show-stopper if the 1997 boat does not have LPG.

In fact, the early LPG tanks can be a bit of a liability, because many of them can no longer be refilled legally because they don't have overflow prevention devices. The newer tanks with the OPD are about an inch taller, so you also need to replace the lid of the propane locker (or maybe the whole locker). So, like most things with boats, it gets complicated. I'd compare the 2001 and 2006 boats to see if they have OPD on their LP tanks.

I have a split backstay with wheel, and have adjusted to maneuvering around the split backstays. I do not consider it a big negative, and in fact I kind of like the symmetry of having equal tension on my shrouds on both sides, which you will not have with a single backstay configuration.

When I bought my C250 I looked at about 6 different ones from 1997-2006, and the single biggest differentiator was the presence and quality of aftermarket upgrades. There were a few boats whose "upgrades" were done so poorly that I refused to consider them.

One had a shore power system that was done very poorly. Rather than just add a 120v panel, they installed a combined 12v/120v panel in another part of the boat, requiring cutting and splicing of every single 12v wire, and the splices were exposed and not done well. What's worse, the 120v terminals on the back side of the panel were exposed inside the galley cabinet, which I considered very hazardous.

Two boats had penetrations through the fuel locker to run the alternator cord out to the motor. The problem is those penetrations allowed gas fumes down into the cabin.

Another boat had a "portlight vent" (actually a round Beckson access hole with clear screw-in insert) installed into the aft berth that was too close to the cockpit floor, and the resulting flexing of the floor kept breaking the caulk line, causing it to leak into the aft berth (big water spot on the cushion below).

Poorly done upgrades can ruin a boat, and once holes are cut in the fiberglass they cannot be undone easily. And unfortunately, since a C250 is a starter boat often under the command of inexperienced owners, those upgrades can sometimes be done poorly. I would use those considerations to select your boat - even more important than model year.

Edited by - TakeFive on 09/08/2012 12:56:02

oregonworld
1st Mate

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68 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2012 : 16:49:35

Thanks guys. I will have the boat in Southern Oregon up at Howard Prairie Lake primarily and plan to take it places.

I really want a wing with a wheel as I have small kids and don't want a tiller knocking them around. The 97 I'm looking at has a new Ida Sailor Rudder and many upgrades, new standing rigging and genoa etc.

So other than the LPG vs. Butane, the split back stay, the step on the combing and the pull/pull steering can you think of anything else major.

From my research and your comments I can do the following: Still buy the Butane cans online, convert the backstay to single, Don't "need" the step...Can the steering be changed or upgraded to Pull/Pull?

Also, I've read good reviews on the IdaSailor rudder upgrade.

Any comments? If the 97 is in great shape and is way cheaper sounds like I can get what I need?

Jared

Edited by - on

oregonworld
1st Mate

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68 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2012 : 16:57:37

BTW the 06 is tiller steering which may rule it out. Does anyone know the cost of upgrading to a wheel? I would probably want someone to do it professionally.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/08/2012 : 17:39:11

Jared,
We too wanted wheel steering on our boat but ended up buying a '97 with a tiller instead. Knowing what I know now, I'm glad we ended up with the tiller. There's more room in the cockpit, I like the feedback from the tiller as opposed to a wheel, and it's easier to move back and forth in the cockpit which is nice at anchor, you can just tuck the tiller up out of the way completely. I don't know if it's "better", but I've come to really like a tiller. I don't think your children are likely to get bonked by it.

If the '97 has everything you're looking for but the wheel, it might be a good buy for you. I think the "step" would be useful, but we've had little problems without it.

Edited by - on

Tom Potter
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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 09/09/2012 : 07:05:10

Jared, there were a few changes in the 250 design in 1997. The 97WK I owned had the molded step as described, it also had the LP stove. I recall taking my old tank to a LP company and they put a new valve on the tank to make it complainant with current laws. I recall it not costing very much at all and it fit in the same locker with no changes.
The hull number was 321, it was a late model 97.

Edited by - Tom Potter on 09/09/2012 07:06:19

John Russell
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Response Posted - 09/09/2012 : 09:08:25

I think having small children practically demands a boat with a tiller, not a wheel. My tiller, when not in use, conveniently stands up and tucks behind one side of the split backstay. I have it secured tightly enough to the rudder to allow me to raise and lower the tiller vertically but, tight enough to keep it at the level that I put it. I use nylon washers between the tiller and the rudder. Makes a lot more room in the cockpit for little kids to do whatever little kids do. The pedestal/wheel takes a lot of cockpit space. Some would say that the tiller makes for less room in the cockpit while underway. I'd suggest that, on a boat with a wheel pedestal, nobody but the helmsman make much use of the cockpit next to or aft of the pedestal. The exception probably is passing through to get to the catbird seats where applicable With a tiller the seat opposite the helmsman is always available. Sitting next to the pedestal will always feel crowded. The pedestal also causes the difficult of getting past the backstay/pedestal intersection. I'd bet that when the boat was designed, it was designed for the tiller and the wheel was added to give the boat a more "yachty" look with less concern for practical application.

Secondly, a wheel really ins't an "upgrade". It's just different. I prefer the tiller. I also think it gives a better feel for the boat. The direct connection to the rudder is a feeling you won't get from a wheel.

Edited by - John Russell on 09/09/2012 09:10:13

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 09/09/2012 : 12:22:23

As you can see people have differing thoughts about wheels.

It really is a matter of personal preference. We like ours a lot and I believe it leaves more room in the cockpit while sailing, especially when tacking. I also prefer the standing position or sitting high on our helmsman seat. Much better sight lines for me than sitting on the cockpit bench. Also, with a tiller the captain is taking up a cockpit seat.

The wheel steering has been an option on the C250 since the C250 was introduced in 1995.

When at anchor we remove the wheel and hang it on a special railing attachment out of the way.

In any case I would not recommend taking a tiller version and changing it to a wheel. If you want the wheel then get one with the wheel. If you get an older push/pull version you can upgrade it with Arlyn's wire pull/pull kit. Easy to install and works very well.

We replaced our rudder with an IdaSailor one and we like it.

We had the older LP tank and were able to purchase a new certified tank.

Happy hunting!

Edited by - on

TakeFive
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Response Posted - 09/09/2012 : 15:53:05

The wheel vs. tiller question never fails to bring out our biases. I'm no exception. However, before I add my comments, I should mention that you'll notice that most people argue forcefully why what they have is better than what they don't have. That's a good thing, because it means that most people end up liking what they have. Both have plusses and minuses, and many of the minuses of each can be overcome with slight adjustments (like Randy's removable wheel).

My boat has the pull-pull steering system by Edson, and there are several signs that it was installed afterwards by a dealer or other person (such as compass and depth mounted on the bulkhead and full-length canvas cover for a chopped-off emergency tiller), and not at the factory. [url="http://www.edsonmarine.com/support/wheel_conversion/pdfs/c250.pdf"]Edson sells a kit that was especially designed for the C250[/url], and should be able to be installed by any Catalina dealer or someone competent enough that you'll trust them to cut a rectangular hole in your transom. You'll have to check the cost before deciding whether you'd be willing to have it installed.

Things I like about the wheel:

- It has enough friction that I can let go for a few minutes a time without using autopilot. (There are tiller devices that can do this also.)
- I can stand in front of the pedestal looking backwards when I'm backing my boat into the slip. (You could do this with a tiller too.)
- It offers multiple piloting positions - directly behind, sitting to either side, sitting in the catbird seats, or standing in front and reaching back much like you'd do with the tiller. (Simple tiller extensions can allow for sitting in the catbird seat and other locations. delliotg has a good pic of this posted on his Facebook page.)
<center>

</center>
- The pedestal guard is very useful for holding onto when heeling, and also for mounting portable electronics, gorillapods, drink holder/organizer, cockpit table, etc. I have all of these things, and the greatly increase cockpit comfort.
- I think the wheel does provide more usable space when at sail, because the pilot can pick his place to sit, and other people can sit in any of the other places without having to move out of the way of the swinging tiller.

A tiller does give a more sensitive feel. Also, it allows easier access to the cabintop winches if you're single handing. And if you spend a lot of time lounging in the cockpit, putting the handle up out of the way opens up the cockpit a lot. But we pretty much sail and go with minimal lounging around so this benefit is not really relevant to us.

So like the others, I prefer what I have. But if I had to find another boat and one with a tiller was in significantly better condition, I'd get one with a tiller.

If you get a tiller boat, I'd suggest sailing for at least a season before paying up to add a wheel. You'll likely be happy with it and forego the expense.

Edited by - TakeFive on 09/09/2012 17:28:08

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 09/09/2012 : 16:42:57

Now that's a content hound! Wish she was still around to sail with us.

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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 09/10/2012 : 08:07:18

Talk about the king on his throne! And that is one fancy set of equipment on the tiller. Are those engine controls?

Rick, good observation that there are lots of ways to configure and operate these boats.

David, I think the tether is supposed to attach to the boat.

Edited by - on

John Russell
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Response Posted - 09/10/2012 : 09:06:22

I think that you'll find plenty of wheel versions out there if that's what you want. Unless you get the tiller version for free, converting a tiller to a wheel is money wasted. Money that could be well-wasted on other stuff like a gennaker or bimini or chart plotter or a detail shop waxing the boat 2-3 times a year or, or...... You know, toys!

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delliottg
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Response Posted - 09/10/2012 : 11:56:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 Talk about the king on his throne! And that is one fancy set of equipment on the tiller. Are those engine controls?

Rick, good observation that there are lots of ways to configure and operate these boats.

David, I think the tether is supposed to attach to the boat.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
<hijack>
The controls are made by a company called Power Tiller, whose owner used to be a member on here. All of his videos are shot using his (then) 16 year old daughter maneuvering their C-25 inside a marina or wherever using the Power Tiller. I've been pretty pleased with it. For this entire season I've had it mounted on the inboard leg of the starboard catbird seat because my emergency tiller isn't long enough to mount it on reliably. That's worked pretty well, but I've got my regular emergency tiller ready to go back into service.

Lola (she was a show girl) was reasonably enthusiastic about going on the boat. As much as you were going to get out of a geriatric chocolate lab. She didn't particularly care for her PFD, but we didn't want her to go over the side & drown, or slip through the boarding ladder rungs (she was fascinated by the sight of water through the ladder for some reason, but I'm pretty sure that reason was she was a retriever, and water==good). We kept her tethered by the locking carabiner you can see on the back of her PFD when the wind started piping up. She could get up on the cushions, or move around on the floor of the cockpit, but not much more. She was never more happy than when we rowed ashore so she could climb out onto terra firma and roam around wherever the new place was. Better if there was a Frisbee around that she could chase, but my Tilley Hat worked well enough, still have punctures (ventilation holes) from her teeth in it. It will be very hard if I ever have to replace that hat, let me tell you.

My tether probably should have been connected, but I really don't bother until the wind starts piping up. As you can see the water behind me, it wasn't exactly lively that day, just a bit cold, hence the long pants & fleece.
</hijack>

Edited by - on

Skipper Paul
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Response Posted - 10/06/2012 : 18:38:02

I purchased my 1996 C250 WB tiller steered boat in 2003 when I retired as this was the boat I could afford at the time. I have had other boats with a wheel helm and can see pros and cons to both systems. One of the biggest "pros" for wheel steering is that my crew (daughter and wife) are far more willing to take the helm with wheel steering than with the tiller due to the "backwards" steering with the tiller. One of the biggest "pros" for the tiller is the ease of installation, ease of operation, and expense of a Tiller Pilot, which makes life much easier for the helmsperson.

I made many modifications to make life easier for Pacific Northwest cruising including: pulpit seats, single backstay, topping lift, lazy jacks, remote controls for the outboard, pressurized water system with filter, pumpout capability for the head, hard outboard to rudder connection, 25 gallon fresh water tank, and many more small although adding to the creature comfort for extended cruising.

I switched to a 135 Genoa adding coaming wenches and outboard sail tracks and yes, I do use a double clipped spinnaker pole for light air and wing-on-wing sailing. I switched to an Ida Sailor kick-up rudder which has only been "kicked" a few times when hitting floating objects unexpectedly functioning flawlessly both times.

A sailboat is a very individual purchase and prior to purchase, consideration should be given to your individual and your families needs and comforts. Where and how the boat will be used of course will be a primary consideration also. The modifications you decide to do should have this in mind as well.

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