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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Constant Main Sail Leech Luffing Trouble

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Sam Cyphers
1st Mate

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USA
29 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/05/2012 : 13:32:38

Hi everyone, thanks so much for the help in the past. I have a '77, hull # 480 with the original main sail and Im having trouble with constant luffing along the leech. This is more an equipment problem than a trimming problem.

Endless trial and error of boom position, clew, cunningham, and foot adjustments dont seem to help. As of right now I sit tight on all adjustments except end boom placement which I keep slightly higher than a 90 degree angle from the mast. This seems to lessen but doesnt eliminate the problem. Sometimes I drop the end of the boom to the point of a loose boom backstay (or whatever that little backstay-type line is called that keeps the boom from dropping into the cockpit when the sail is not in use) and its the same problem all over again. In heavier wind it sounds like I am flying a helicopter.

Is there something I am missing?? The boat is new to me so Im hoping an insiders knowledge of an adjustment can help me avoid buying a new sail?? Please tell me I am missing something!! All input is welcome!! Any advice on how to adjust or any indicators as to when a sail is done for?

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2012 : 13:43:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I have a '77, hull # 480 with the original main sail and..... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I think the answer to the problem is in the description. However, pictures or video would be much more help.

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2012 : 13:44:02

With the vang loose, you should tighten the main halyard. The "boom backstay" you mentioned is a topping lift. It should not be tight or in tension. If it is, then it's raising the boom and causing your problem. Loosen it, and tighten the mainsheet. That should pull down the sail and flatten it out.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 07/05/2012 13:46:14

Sam Cyphers
1st Mate

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USA
29 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2012 : 14:02:49

Thanks for the help, I have tried that last combination of dropping the topping lift completely as well as loosening the vang while tightening the main sheet. Still it flutters!

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2012 : 14:08:01

You didn't mention whether you have a jib or genoa deployed. The main will sometimes get backwinded by the headsail. Obviously not the problem if you only have the main up. My first thought is that your sail is "blown out", and will be difficult to get good sail shape.

Edited by - Davy J on 07/05/2012 14:09:52

Sam Cyphers
1st Mate

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USA
29 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2012 : 14:08:12

Oh, and part of me is wondering if the sail is done for. When I drop the topping lift I can almost see a stretch line going from the clew to the head of the sail, which is inside the leech. That space between the stretch line and the leech is what luffs.

Im really hoping its an adjustment instead of a new sail, but my hopes are dwindling.

Edited by - on

Sam Cyphers
1st Mate

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USA
29 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2012 : 14:09:29

Yes, sorry about that. It flutters in every case, whether I have a jib, genoa or no head sail.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2012 : 14:25:39

Does the sail reach the top of the mast when hoisted? Is the luff taut? If its not, I'd suspect the sail isn't hoisted completely. Lift the boom a with the topping lift and then re-tighten the main halyard. Maybe even give the halyard a few turns on a winch. Then, release the topping lift and see how much drop you get.

I understand that some models of the C25 have a boom that isn't in a fixed location on the mast. If the boom is hel in place with adjustable devices, see if you can lower the boom a bit.

Is the luff taut?

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2012 : 15:02:47

First a silly question: Are your battens in the pockets?

Now, an unlikely thought: Is there a small line sticking out of a pocket low on the leech, with a little cleat or disk attached to the sail just below it? That would be a leech line for eliminating flutter--some sails have 'em, and many don't. You tension it just enough to do the job and cleat it, but not so much as to "cup" the leech.

More likely: Your 35-y.o. sail has served you well......

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 07/05/2012 15:04:48

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2012 : 16:07:42

My main will flutter along the leech also in stronger winds. I thought it was from being a little tired but I'm going to try what Dave said and see if I can eliminate it. That's if it has a leech line. Standard Catalina Main so I doubt it.

Edited by - islander on 07/05/2012 16:09:49

Sam Cyphers
1st Mate

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USA
29 Posts

Response Posted - 07/05/2012 : 16:48:19

Next is my silly question: Can battens go bad? Its my fault for not having closely inspected them, but this could be a possibility on my part. Its a new boat to me so I overlooked that aspect. Secondly, at John Russell, I bet it could go about another foot or two higher towards the mast. Its an adjustable boom so I always figured if the head of the sail and the tack/downhaul were tight (which I always make sure both are), then its distance to top wouldnt make much of a difference. I'll try it. I wish I had a better bearing on whether the luff was taut, but the sail has always done this and nobody else has this problem so its hard to find another example, but I would say it is between taut and not.

Edited by - on

Bill Holcomb
Admiral

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USA
769 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2012 : 06:22:00

Hi Sam,
As much as I hate to say it, the inability to adjust the flutter along the leach in any wind condition probably means that your thirty-five year old mainsail is blown out. Even with light recreational use, thirty-five years is pretty much past the normal life span. The sail will still "work" - - but not very effectively.

Some "clews" to tell if the sail is actually blown out:
Your boat seems to heel more than other C25s (or similar ODay 25s, US 25s, etc) - - no matter how much breeze there is.
Your boat doesn't seem to point up wind as well as other C25s.
Your boat seems to sail more slowly than other C25s.
Your boat seems to heel farther - and faster - than other C25s in a gust of wind.
Your sail is "soft" like a bed sheet.

Of course, you could take the sail to a sail maker and have the sail evaluated. It might be possible to have the sail re-cut, new leech line installed, cleaned, and new resin applied to the sail. It won't be new... but it would probably be better. The other alternative is a new main sail. If you opt for the new sail, I'd recommend Gary Swenson at Ullman of Ventura. He's made several sails for me and my sailing friends. The sails are great as is the service.

Bill Holcomb - C25 Snickerdoodle #4839

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 07/06/2012 : 08:17:33

I agree with everyone else, you need a new main. Yours is baggy and blown out. I just replaced my mainsail and it's made a huge improvement on the boat and how it sails. I don't know where you are located, but I bought my mainsail from Ballard Sails (in Seattle) and they did a great job with it and the price was extremely reasonable.

Some signs that my old sail was worn out were that I couldn't get good tension in the luff (it was stretched out longer than the distance from the boom to the top of the mast), the leech was always fluttering, and the top of the leech was always spilling wind (as if I had a permanent topping lift). The boom's best angle wasn't near 90 degrees, it was dropped quite a bit farther into the cockpit to try and stretch the leech out as much as possible.

I also have one original Catalina sail (my 110% jib) and I can say that it isn't that well made. The fabric is lighter weight than my 4 other sails (old and new main and a 135% genoa) and the stitching and reinforcements aren't as good as the aftermarket sails. They do the job, but I think that you'll notice a major improvement with a replacement sail.

Edited by - on

Sam Cyphers
1st Mate

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USA
29 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2012 : 09:48:53

Everyone was pretty much correct here. The sail was done for. This weekend I went from a starboard to a port tack and ripped the sail from the leech to the mast. Bummer. I live in Southern California, docked at Long Beach/San Pedro. Does anybody know of somebody who will have a cheap sail? I just purchased this boat so all my money went towards into the payment, motor, and all the other little things you need. I need a cheap sail cause I want to get back on the water asap. Any suggestions?

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2012 : 10:08:47

Do you have a tall (30') or regular (28') mast?

There are plenty of online used sail lofts like Bacon Sails, Minneys Yacht Surplus, Second Wind Sails, Pineapple Sails. You can search for your boats parameters there. I think Minney's may even be local to you.

I have a blown out main from my boat that was repaired (it also tore from leech to luff about 3' down from the head...a whole new head was sewn on). I'd probably sell it quite cheaply (sadly shipping would probably cost more). It'll get you sailing for a few months, but you'd still want a replacement. I carry it around as a spare. My boat is a tall rig, this sail won't fit on a standard rig.

Edited by - awetmore on 07/09/2012 10:14:32

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2012 : 12:04:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sam Cyphers
 Everyone was pretty much correct here. The sail was done for. This weekend I went from a starboard to a port tack and ripped the sail from the leech to the mast. Bummer. I live in Southern California, docked at Long Beach/San Pedro. Does anybody know of somebody who will have a cheap sail? I just purchased this boat so all my money went towards into the payment, motor, and all the other little things you need. I need a cheap sail cause I want to get back on the water asap. Any suggestions?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I bought a headsail from [url="http://nationalsail.com/ushop/"]National Sail[/url] a couple of years ago. I'm very happy with it. When the time comes to replace the main, I'll go back to them.

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