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Best motor choice?

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Mango Brother
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/30/2012 : 10:15:20

I was hoping to be sailing the Delaware Bay last weekend but instead was surprised by my 12 year old evinrude that has piston/rod problems – time to get a new motor.
Here I sit with a blank piece of paper trying to decide what I should buy – I have heard good things about the Honda, Yamaha and Tahatsu.
I am leaning toward the Honda due to the tiller handle location near the center of the motor. My evinrude never turned completely because the tiller handle hit the gas storage compartment. The location of the tiller handle on the Honda and the fact that the motor head appears to sit back on the mount looks like I would have a good shot at full turning.
The Yamaha and Tahatsu both have tiller handles that are on the extreme side of the motor. Seems to me the handle would hit the gas compartment similar to my evinrude, so I am shying away from them, yet I suspect many of you have them – so what am I missing? Is turning them an issue?
Second surprise to me was motor availability. I have talked to a few Honda dealers so far and none have motors. I am going to expand my circle (Philadelphia area) to see if I can find one and also hit the internet. Any suggestions on good internet sites or Northeast dealers?
Lastly, I am thinking 9.9 but would go to 15 if that is all I can find. Also thinking about the power trim option if one is available (hoping the motor lasts for years to come).
I would appreciate any and all thoughts and advice on the above. I am relatively new to sailing and learn a lot from all of your postings on this site. Thanks in advance for your help!
Steve

Mango Brother
250 WK - #418

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 10:51:01

Can't help you with Honda but if you decide to go with Nissan or Tohatsu (same motor-differnet decals) you cannot beat these guys -->> http://www.onlineoutboards.com/.

Quite a few people on this site have bought from them and have had great results! My slip neighbor (Dolivaw on this site) just got a new Nissan from them and it sure looks purty!

Edited by - on

superbob
Navigator

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USA
200 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 11:12:57

Bought a 9.9 Nissan longshaft(25")a year ago. No issues with the tiller. . .it's all good.

Edited by - on

SEAN
Admiral

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USA
772 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 11:17:27

electric tilt sounds nice !

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 11:24:30

If you go with Honda, Hilton Marine in Wilmington are nice guys & have given me good service. You definitely need XL shaft, which is unlikely to be in stock anywhere. I have 15 hp, but 9.9 hp should be plenty. With current Hondas, the 15 is a "twin" of the 20hp - bigger & heavier than the 9.9.

I can't promise that you'll be able to turn the Honda - I have an earlier model, which barely turns with the tiller up (hard link to rudder). Newer models could be better or worse.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 12:31:32

A couple other things:

- Full turning may be affected by whether you mount the motor directly on the transom, or if you have a bracket. Mine is mounted directly on the transom, which is why I need to raise the tiller. I wouldn't stand a chance of turning with the tiller down. Based on your description (turn with tiller down), it sounds like you have a bracket.

- Association members get an extra $50-75 discount (depends on model purchased) and free shipping from Online Outboards. If you haven't joined yet, do so now.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 12:47:48

We have the Tohatsu 9.8 and I had problems getting it to turn in the transom, so ended up mounting it on a Garelick scissors mount. The gear shift got in the way on the starboard side, and the tiller on the port. Even with it mounted on the Garelick, I still have the engine offset a few inches to starboard to accommodate the tiller.

Our C-250 is a year or two older than yours (judging by sail number), and our Tohatsu is a 2008 model, so things may have changed a bit. I think the previous year Tohatsu may have fit better, but I have no good way to qualify that.

You are unlikely to ever need a 15 HP engine, the outboards available in the 10 HP range are more than adequate. Depending on where you sail, even a 6-8 HP engine might be sufficient. Our boat originally came with a 8 HP 2-stroke which worked pretty well even in nasty weather here on the Puget Sound. Our Tohatsu will push us at hull speed at less than half throttle, and we can cruise all day long at 4.5 knots @ ~1200-1400 RPM.

As far as what's best, there are endless discussions about outboards on here, all you need to do is search for them. I'm of the opinion that all of them are roughly equivalent in performance, endurance, cost of ownership, etc., and it comes down to personal preference. I don't think I'd hesitate to purchase any of the mainstream manufacturer's outboards. We decided to go with the Tohatsu because it seemed to best fit what we needed the best, had good reviews both here and elsewhere, and was the lowest price for the range we were looking at. If you're looking at the Tohatsus & Nissans on OnlineOutboards.com, be aware that the engines are identical except for roughly $400 worth of Nissan decals.

Edited by - on

hughbamford
Deckhand

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Australia
17 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 18:43:41

Just ordered a new 10HP Honda electric start long shaft for my new Catalina WK250, did a lot of homework and found out this engine came up tops. Another owner has the same engine in the North West of Western Australia where they have massive tidal changes and it's got enough grunt to get them out of trouble.
Unsure about Honda on your side of the pond but they are currently upgrading their models and there are some good prices floating around on the brand new older models.

Cheers,

Hugh

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 19:34:37

I've got Tohatsu 8hp long shaft mounted on a fixed bracket and have been thrilled with it's performance, reliability, weight, and how well it turns. I had a Honda that ran well but was considerably heavier and had a larger cowling. I'm pretty sure Tohatsu is the largest manufacturer of small block (under 15hp) outboards in the world, building them for Nissan as well as Mercury so it should be no surprise they do a good job.
Willy

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Mango Brother
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 20:26:19

Wow, I learned a lot tonight!
Many thanks for all the input. I started following some of the links and read all about others experiences with OB tiller turning issues, so I know it is not only me. My old motor was mounted directly to the transom.
David, I saw your pictures of your Garelick mount – amazing job and very well explained, but I am not sure I am up to drilling holes in my transom – at least not yet.
I think I am going to go down 2 parellel paths – look for a 9.9 Honda, no bigger (don’t want the twin of the 20 – may even consider the 8). Second path is to explore moving or removing the OB tiller and potentially shifter from either a Tohatsu or Yamaha and installing Arlyn’s soft link. I have wheel steering and the soft link would be great for docking with the tidal current I have to deal with and I may be able to put the remote controls on the pedestal – boy would that be nice.
Superbob – one question for you. We have almost identical boats and you mention your year old Nissan and no tiller issues – I assume this means you can turn the motor tiller fully from side to side. I am trying to figure out why it works for you! Are you using an additional motor mount or is the tiller somewhere other than the extreme port side of the motor? Do you have a picture or did you do anything special?
Rick, thanks for the tip on the association discount – I am a member, but didn’t know that. I did call Hilton – they would have to order a Honda with July/August delivery!
Thanks again to all – very helpful.
Steve

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 20:31:03

Association memebers (not just forum users) recieve a discount at http://www.onlineoutboards.com/

I just think a 15hp motor is more than you need. My 9.8 Tohatsu(2005) moves my boat just fine at 1/2 - 3/4 throttle. It's mounted on a Garelick mount. I've not experienced the steering issues described above although the location of the gear shift isn't ideal on our boats. I'd look hard at the Mercury version since the shifter and throttle are both on the tiller. Oh, yeah, it costs more for what is essentially the same motor.

Be sure to get the longest shaft available. The deeper the prop the better.

edit to add: You don't need to remove the tiller to add the soft link. That's where the throttle is anyway. I looked long and hard at the soft/hard link but since I've never really had any issues with stereing the boat in tight spots, I realized it's probably nice but not really necessary.

Edited by - John Russell on 05/30/2012 20:36:19

Mango Brother
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 20:32:26

Willy,
Thanks - I recently heard that Tahatsu also just signed on Evinrude for under 15hp. I may be in Lewes this weekend - if so, any chance I could see your motor mount?
Steve

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/30/2012 : 20:54:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Mango Brother
 Wow, I learned a lot tonight!
...I think I am going to go down 2 parellel paths – look for a 9.9 Honda, no bigger (don’t want the twin of the 20 – may even consider the 8). Second path is to explore moving or removing the OB tiller and potentially shifter from either a Tohatsu or Yamaha and installing Arlyn’s soft link. I have wheel steering and the soft link would be great for docking with the tidal current I have to deal with and I may be able to put the remote controls on the pedestal – boy would that be nice....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Unless there's been another recent model change, the 9.9 and 8 hp Hondas are twins of each other. So unless you get a significant price break on the 8, the 9.9 might be a safer bet - AFAIK, it's no larger or heavier, and has a little extra power for maneuvering in the currents, which I'm very familiar with up here on the Delaware. Although, frankly, you might only get the extra power at high RPMs, which you almost never use anyway. So you might consider the 8 if you can find and extra long one for less money or faster delivery (which clearly will be a major issue for any extra long Honda). One major advantage of the Tohatsu is that the online dealer ships FAST. He'll get you on the water in less than a week.

For steering, you might consider my hard link, described with pictures in [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20807&whichpage=3"]this thread[/url] (scroll down toward the bottom). I know of at least one other person who recently duplicated my design. However, I cannot guarantee that the newer Hondas will rotate as well as my motor (which barely clears by about 1/4" on the port side, and gently rubs the shift lever on the starboard side).

As for installing remote controls, I have seen some C250s with the Honda shift console, and I'm not a big fan. It's a little bulky, and designed to mount on a starboard vertical bulkhead (think powerboat). On the C250 it typically gets put near the cockpit sole in front of the LP locker, where I believe it is a trip hazard. (I hope I'm not offending those of you who have this.)

Edson makes a much nicer set of chrome plated control levers that are made to mount in the pre-drilled holes on either side of their steering pedestal. One is shift, and the other is throttle. The cables go down through the pedestal, along the ceiling of the aft berth, into the rear battery area, then emerge somewhere in front of the outboard where they tie into the shift and throttle linkages. I have seen very few boats with this arrangement, and I think it is a very large job to pull it off - maybe better for a dealer to do. I think that Randy considered doing this ([url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.com/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=15663"]see this thread[/url]), but not sure he ever did the install. Note that the Edson controls are not specific to Honda. No matter what brand of motor you use, you will have to improvise the connection between the cables and the linkage specific to the motor. So the bad news is there is no turn-key solution for this, but the good news is that it might be no worse for a Tohatsu than a Honda.

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/30/2012 21:02:02

Mango Brother
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2012 : 10:19:21

Rick,
Thanks for the feedback and threads. I like what you did with your hardlink - it looks really slick and simple. I will keep the design in mind as I am motor shopping. Depending how my time goes, I may do the soft link short-term and then the hardlink when I have more time.
Also appreciate the thread on the edson mount controls. great to see it done and read perspectives on it. With the currents we both deal with, it would be great to have the controls handy, but turning and manuverability is more important and from what I read, it could be somewhat restricted by the remote cables. I am not rushing into this one, especially with the effort involved.
Thanks again,
Steve

Edited by - on

willy
Captain

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USA
422 Posts

Response Posted - 05/31/2012 : 15:55:12

Steve...no problem. I am at the very end of C-dock at the Rehoboth Bay Marina on Collins Street in Dewey Beach. (It's the light just south of the Rusty Rudder) Ask anyone who works there for Bill with the Catalina and they will direct you. I usually get to the boat at 9 or 10 AM...sail around lunchtime...and am back to the pier around 5.

Edited by - on

Mango Brother
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Response Posted - 06/01/2012 : 09:35:34

Willy/Bill,
Thanks but as it turns out, I am staying north this weekend. i will try to look you up next time we are down.
rgds,
Steve

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 06/05/2012 : 19:29:44

Steve, sorry I am chiming in late here. I have the 8hp Honda, my 2nd one, and cant say enough good things about them. I also have a Tohatsu for my dinghy. But for ocean sailing, most experts I have talked to, recommend the Honda. It is more expensive and heavier but it gives me piece of mind. Also you can flush the engine without using earmuffs like most other engines. You just remove the cover and there is a port you hook up you garden hose to using an adapter. Its great. Good luck.
Steve

Edited by - on

Mango Brother
Deckhand

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16 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2012 : 09:58:19

And now for the rest of the story - it has a happy ending.
I found and purchased a new 9.9 Honda with power tilt. It took a number of dealer calls before I found one, but it was in a Honda warehouse in Chicago. I believe Honda is the only 9.9 on the market today that you can mount directly on the transom and still turn it for 2 reasons: 1) the handle is more centered on the head vs. others whose handle is on the side and 2) it sits further off it's transom mounting bracket than others.
I installed it this weekend with a new backing plate (half in thick kitchen cutting board) and Arlyn's soft link. One other small modification - the handle support bracket still hits the gas locker (even pushing motor as far starboard as possible). To minimize this and maximize turning capability, I ground off the corner of the bracket. There is still plenty of support with more turning radious.

End result with limited time to play with it this weekend - Amazing. As I used the wheel steering with soft link going down the canal, the boat responded phenominally - I felt I could run a tight slalom course with a bunch of random bouys. Very happy with the motor - quiet, lot of thrust and good stopping power in reverse - and the power lift is really slick (although it does make the motor mount a bit bigger).

Thanks to all for your input - mission accomplished!

Edited by - on

gpc
Deckhand

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17 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2012 : 15:15:33

Do you mind mentioning how much you paid?

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Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2012 : 20:41:01

Steve, IMHO you got the Lexus of outboards. I've owned Hondas--2hp, 8hp (two), and 225 hp. No disrespect for Tohatsu and all of its re-branded clones, but I think you'll like yours.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/18/2012 20:43:46

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2012 : 07:05:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 Steve, IMHO you got the Lexus of outboards. I've owned Hondas--2hp, 8hp (two), and 225 hp. No disrespect for Tohatsu and all of its re-branded clones, but I think you'll like yours.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Do a forum search on "outboard problem" and you'll see that Honda comes up the majority of the time. Just based on the ten plus years I've been on this forum, I've seen a plethora of outboard problem threads. Based on those, Honda might be my last choice.

Edited by - dlucier on 06/21/2012 07:06:09

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 06/21/2012 : 07:23:26

I've had two Hondas over the past 12 years on two boats (not to mention others on my lawn mower, pressure washer, etc). All were bulletproof. My current 9.9 has not been off the transom in 6 years, I do all service on the boat. If the Hondas come up a lot in searches I suspect it is because so many of us have them. Frankly, my sense is that the state-of-the-art in 4 cycle motors is quite good across all manufacturers. One thing I will say for the new Hondas (mine is the 2000 classic style) is that they are very quiet. A friend has one and the thing just purrs as though it were electric.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 06/21/2012 : 07:37:29

For a lot of years, Honda and Yamaha were the only 4-stroke outboards on the market--Honda being the first by at least 10 years (in the 1980s). The Tohatsu/Nissan/Mercury 4-stroke arrived how many years ago? (Five?) I have no idea how many Honda 8-9.9 outboards (all years) are out there right now, but I suspect it's many multiples of the Tohatsu/Nissan/Merc 4-strokes, and substantially more than Yamaha 4-strokes.

2-strokes are a different category--more tolerant of dirty fuel, etc. Honda never made 'em.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 06/21/2012 07:39:13

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