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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Electrical wiring

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Mountaineer62
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/20/2012 : 09:24:53

Currently own C-25 SR, fixed keel, hull no.3227, electric start Evinrude, trickle-charge solar panel. Prev. owner kept boat on a mooring. When acquired last Fall, engine ran well.

Engine removed for winterizing and then re-installed; am having trouble now with starting 9.9 O/B. Tried using troller motor connection w/o success. Tried connecting a 3rd battery with direct connection and minimal success. Does anyone have a wiring diagram for two batteries, a distribution panel, and a battery switch? One with a solar panel as well would be helpful.

Edited by - on

smshield28
Deckhand

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USA
15 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2012 : 09:19:26

www.catalina-capri-25s.org/manbro/Cat25manpre88.pdf

This has a good 12volt diagram of the wiring. Mine was done this way. I'm on an '82. You're trolling motor connection should work fine. I have a 14gauge pair coming out by the motor for an electric starter. I got the boat without a running outboard, so I've got a trolling motor back there that runs fine to get me in and out of the slip. I can sail it otherwise.

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2012 : 10:15:53

Can you give a little more detail what "minimal success" you are seeing? If the 3rd battery you are using is fully charged it sounds like a case of having poor connections or high impedance issues. A good cleaning of all cable connections would be in order. You might try using a set of automotive jumpers wired directly from the battery to the outboard and see if it works then. If it does you have a high impedance issue (cable internal resistance or poor connections). If it does not you may need to do some work on the starter motor.

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Mountaineer62
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2012 : 12:15:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 Can you give a little more detail what "minimal success" you are seeing? If the 3rd battery you are using is fully charged it sounds like a case of having poor connections or high impedance issues. A good cleaning of all cable connections would be in order. You might try using a set of automotive jumpers wired directly from the battery to the outboard and see if it works then. If it does you have a high impedance issue (cable internal resistance or poor connections). If it does not you may need to do some work on the starter motor.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
"minimal success"- When the starter switch is depressed the engine turns over slowly (as if a "dead battery"), occasionally it will "catch' and the engine will run.......for a while. I ran the engine for 10+ hours delivering it to my slip in November. Removed it for winterizing service and have the intermittent starting probs since. Status: I have replaced the fuel with fresh non-ethanol treated gas, replaced the "primer" bulb, checked and validated the integrity of the gas lines. With the engine mechanics we installed the third battery in the lazarette and connected it to the existing wiring cable to the engine wiring cable. It started and ran while they were present....now won't start. Even cranking the the pull rope won't start it. I have purchased a replacement battery switch, 20+ feet of wire and connectors, to replace the existing connections. The two batteries that came with the boat was load tested and found to be in the green area. As options I have a 30-lb thrust trolling motor, a 2hp 4-stroke Honda, and a sympathetic sailor friend has donated his non-working 9.9 O/B for my use if it can be repaired. (? carburetor issue) I hate the thought of cortorting my 70+ year old body beneath the cockpit to rewire the engine wiring to the batteries. All suggestions and shared experiences appreciated.

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2012 : 12:31:16

Ben,
Sounds like you may have two issues going on. You should at least be able to get to the point of being able to crank the engine over briskly. If it doesn't start then you can look at ignition or fuel issues. See if you can get the cranking right first. I would figure out how to get those new cables installed. That might be enough to cure the cranking woes and fire the engine up.

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Ape-X
Admiral

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USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2012 : 14:23:47

interestingly enough, discussions at the marina talked about a similar issue: bad or poor ground to the engine caused a less than enthusiastic crank, which mimics a low battery. Anyone else ever hear of such a thing? It was new to me, but something to look into

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4007 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2012 : 16:11:08

you said it won't start with the pull cord and when you do get it started it runs for a while then stops leads me to believe this is an engine problem and not a battery/starter problem. You don't need a battery to start it with the pull cord nor is a battery needed to keep it running. 4cycle or 2? These are small engines and don't need lots of battery power to start them. Have you ever seen the size of a motorcycle battery? They start higher HP engines than a 9.9.

Edited by - islander on 05/21/2012 16:22:05

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 05/22/2012 : 08:38:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Anyone else ever hear of such a thing? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Poor ground connections are the most common electrical problem on boats and cars. Trace your ground cable tot he engine, disconnect and clean the contact surface. Good starting point.

Edited by - on

skrenz
Captain

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USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2012 : 09:47:03

I think that you have two distinct problems that you believe are connected but may in fact are not connected.
Problem 1. There appears to be a problem with your battery/electrical connections. The comments in earlier posts all make sense.
Problem 2. Even if you resolve any electrical issues, it sounds like you still have an engine issue because you said: "Even cranking the the pull rope won't start it." that pretty much rules out electrical connections being the cause of the engine not starting because it won't start when you manually use the pull rope. So something else is wrong. Without actually being on site with the motor it is hard to diagnose but here is a scatter shot approach to what might be wrong:
1. It you take out a spark plug, keep it attached to the wire and ground it then pull on the starter rope, do you get a good visible spark? If not, there is an internal electrical problem anywhere from the magnito to wiring.
By the way, are the plugs fouled in any way? If so, clean them off and try again.
2. If you get a good spark, will the engine start right up if you spray some engine starting spray (the stuff you use in the winter) into the air intake? If so, it could be a fuel problem.
3. If not, did mice perhaps build a nest inside of your air intake? Don't laugh, these guys can get into anything that is dry and warm, especially in the winter.
4. My old Evinrude (9.9 Yachtmaster)has what looks to me like a diaphram fuel punp. The fuel line terminates into a little square box on the side of the engine which is attached with a knurled screw. You know that it was intended to be removed because the screw driver slot is made to fit a nickle. Anyways, when this is removed, there is a rubber diaphram that can get gooped up and then fuel will flow poorly or not at all. If you haven't checked this sort of thing, check it. It fixed my problem.
5. Is the choke plate operating correctly and opening fully?
6. My old evenrude has a turn dial on the front of the engine that appears to adjust mixture. did that get wacked out of position?
7. When you turn the throttle on the handle, does it actually articulate the carburator?

This is not an exhaustive list but I remember what my father told me years ago. It obvious but also useful to remember: "Its gotta be either spark or gas."

Good luck

Edited by - on

szymek
Navigator

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Canada
209 Posts

Response Posted - 05/24/2012 : 11:13:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ape-X
 interestingly enough, discussions at the marina talked about a similar issue: bad or poor ground to the engine caused a less than enthusiastic crank, which mimics a low battery. Anyone else ever hear of such a thing? It was new to me, but something to look into

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I did experience that last year. Seemed that battery was dead. So i bought new battery and it worked on intermittent basis (almost no changed) - i ended up scratching my head as i couldn't figure it out. Then i was told to check my wiring - which i was sure was fine as i checked everything (except ground connection at the motor as i was lazy and it wasn't easily accessible). However as a last resort i decided to check the ground on the motor... it was a little corroded (honestly not a lot). Once i cleaned it, she started turning over like it was a brand new motor. Done!!

However, if you can't start your motor with the pull cord, you have secondary issues at hand. Skrenz listed some really good points to look into.

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 05/25/2012 : 04:39:56

Do you have a fuel filter. If so, replace it and check ground connection.

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Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5297 Posts

Response Posted - 05/28/2012 : 20:51:12

Maybe that air is getting into the fuel line at a connection.
That will starve the engine for fuel, even at low idle

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Mountaineer62
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 05/29/2012 : 14:05:51

Thanks for all the suggestions; will take them one at a time starting with the simplest then progressing to the more complicated. Will keep all advised of my progress. Great to have access to knowledgeable resources and friends; spec. got a friend to tow me to my slip in outside St. Michaels as the Memorial Day race from Annapolis forced closure of transit rentals.

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