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pointing

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awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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Initially Posted - 05/08/2012 : 11:30:07

I made this map of my sailing track from Sunday:
http://phred.org/~alex/maps/sailing/4-6-2012/

I used GPS Visualizer to colorize the map based on our speed. This made it very interesting to see exactly how well we were pointing as we went through tacks, and I could also see areas where I was trying to get too close to the wind and the boat slowed down. An easy place to see this is in the southeast corner of the map where I started pointing too high, slowed all the way to 4kmh (about 2 knots) before tacking and immediately picking up speed.

The interesting thing for me is seeing that my boat will do 90 degree tacks, but it isn't very efficient at going that close hauled. I have a really worn out mainsail, maybe that will improve with the new main.

Going 100-110 degrees on a tack seemed to allow me to immediately get back up into the red (5 knots range) just after the tack. You can see some of these comparisons in the tacking going up to the Aurora Bridge (northwest corner of the map).

What strategies do others, especially the racers, use when tacking? Do you tack a bit farther than your minimum possible to gain a bit more speed, at the downside of potentially having an extra tack or 2 in a given leg?

It was pretty easy to make this map on gps-visualizer, just expand the "advanced options" for your track and have it colorize based on speed.

Alex W
Seattle, WA
Express 37 "re-Quest"
previously owned 1984 Catalina 25 "Lutra"

Edited by - on

Heartbeat
Navigator

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Response Posted - 05/08/2012 : 14:16:21

Wow, what a cool map.

I used to sail in Lake Washington with my grandfather. There were even a few week long grandfather/grandchildren trips to the San Juans. Wonderful memories.

Do you need to pop the Montlake Bridge? I am thinking not, but it's been at least 15 years.

Matt

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 05/08/2012 : 15:06:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Wow, what a cool map.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I was wondering the same thing about Montlake. Seems to me that was one of the reasons I dropped my mast on my SJ 21 when I motored from

Leschi to Dunato's when I had the boat lifted onto my trailer about six years ago.

How do you get your date from your GPS? I know I've done it once a long time ago with my Garmin 276C, but I don't recall how I did it and so far my Google-fu hasn't come up with a method. I know it's possible because I've printed at least one track in here before.

When I was reading through my auto pilot's manual earlier today, I noticed that when you tack automatically, it tacks you through 100 degrees, not 90. And I know when I used to race, we'd always go a little over our intended tack to build up a bit of speed before settling on a new course.

Edited by - on

awetmore
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Response Posted - 05/08/2012 : 15:21:32

I'm using a Garmin Oregon 450 GPS. The newer Garmin units are nice and save tracks as GPX files on the device, and the device looks like a USB flash disk when plugged into a PC. So it is just a matter of pointing GPS Visualizer at the GPX file, letting it do it's magic, then saving the end result on my webpage if I want to share it with the world.

If you don't ever care about sharing the maps then the program "TopoFusion" makes very similar maps that you can colorize by different attributes and it manages copying the data from your GPS for all models of Garmin units. There is a free trial.

University Bridge is 42', Montlake Bridge is around 45', Ballard is also about the same. Fremont is 30', so I have to get that one opened, but the rest I can fit under. Not having that option would be a major downside to owning a larger boat and keeping it on Lake Union. Our boat height is about 39' from the water to the top of our antenna.

Lake Union has been a great place to keep the boat so far, but I haven't tried going through the locks yet. From our slip it is quick (15-20 minutes) to get out to Lake Washington, or no time to get on Lake Union. Lake Union seems to have more reliable wind than Lake Washington. It's a lot smaller, but there is a lot of boat traffic which can keep it fun and always gives me other boats to race against.

Edited by - on

awetmore
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Response Posted - 05/08/2012 : 15:24:18

Oh, I should add that the 450 props up nicely on the companionway handle. I have it configured to show a map and the current speed in knots (using the large font size), and I can clearly read the speed from anywhere in the cockpit. That is the best mounting location that I've found so far, and it required nothing by 6" of cord to make a safety lanyard.

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Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 05/08/2012 : 16:56:49

I have raced alot against J24s, and a well-prepped Catalina 25 TR/FK can point and foot with a J24 to windward, but I can't say with assurance that it can beat them to windward consistently.

Optimum pointing is all about maximizing your boatspeed. As your boatspeed increases, the boat's pointing ability increases. At slower speeds the tacking angle will be wider, and it will be narrower at higher speeds.

Fast tacking primarily requires the coordination of the helmsman, release man and jib tailer. There is a very limited amount of time, between the commencement of the turn and the completion of the tack, in which to release the jibsheet, haul it in on the other side, trim the other sheet and complete the turn, and it all must be timed to begin and end at the right time. For example, if the helmsman turns too tightly, then the release man and the tailer have less time to do their jobs. If the release man holds the jib too long, such as to backwind the jib, then he is shortening the amount of time the tailer has to haul in that long jibsheet. All three must work in coordination with each other.

Release Man

The function of the release man is not merely to uncleat the jib sheet and let it run. His function is to uncleat and unwrap the jib sheet completely from the winch, release it at the precise moment that the jib stops driving, and ensure that the jib sheet runs free. In preparation for a tack, the release man should loosely coil the working jibsheet and lay it on the seat, to ensure that nobody will be sitting on it or stepping on it when the command comes to tack.

Upon the command to execute, watch the shape of the jib as the boat begins to turn. As the boat approaches head to wind, when the jib begins to luff, peel the working jib sheet off the winch by raising the hand straight up above the winch while holding the jib sheet in the hand. Twist the wrist and peel all the wraps completely off the winch, but don’t just drop the jib sheet. Hold it loosely in the open hand, with the palm upturned, so that it can run freely through the palm of your hand. Watch the line run through the first turning block, looking for a hockle. If a hockle develops, simply grasp the sheet and yank it, to free the hockle, and then let it run free again. After each tack, check again to ensure that your jib sheet is untangled, so it will be able to run free in the event there is another quick command to tack.

Tailer

Before we begin to discuss the tailer’s procedures, let’s discuss the fastest way to tail a jib sheet. When most people tail a jib sheet, their instinct is to do it with the palms of their hands facing upwards. They start by pulling the jib sheet in to their stomach with the left hand, and then they bring the right hand upwards and grasp the sheet from the bottom, and pull the jib sheet in to their stomach. That's not the fastest or surest way to do it.

Grasp the jibsheet, near the winch, with your left palm facing down, and your little finger nearest the winch. Your left shoulder should be pointing at the winch. Pull the jib sheet toward you with your left hand, and past your left hip as far as you can, while rotating your left shoulder back, and your right shoulder forward. While the line is still taut between your left hand and the winch, slap your right hand palm-down on top of the sheet near the winch, grab it, and pull it toward you and past your right hip, rotating your right shoulder back. Then reach out with your left hand, slap it palm-down on top of the line and pull it toward you and past your left hip as far as you can. You can alternate hands very quickly and very sure-handedly in that way. By rotating your shoulders and pulling the line back past your hip on each stroke, instead of merely to your stomach, you are pulling in much more of the jib sheet with each stroke.

Now let's discuss the tailer's procedures. You cannot release or tail a jib efficiently sitting down. At the preparatory command, the tailer should establish good balance, with feet wide apart, one foot slightly forward of the other, and knees bent slightly to lower your center of gravity, and make sure you have ample room to swing your arms freely.

Keep the jib sheet out from under foot, and check to ensure that it’s untangled, both before and after every tack.

Put two wraps of the jib sheet on the winch, depending on the wind speed, and put the winch handle in place. Take in all slack in the jib sheet. By taking in the slack in advance, you'll have less to pull in during the limited and all too brief amount of time you have to complete the tack.

At the command to execute, the tailer should watch the jib, when the release man releases it. As soon as he releases it, start taking in only the slack in the jibsheet, allowing the sail to luff freely. (If you take in the jib sheet too soon and too aggressively, you’ll cause the jib to backwind.) Keep taking in the slack in the jibsheet as the boat begins to turn. Just before the bow of the boat crosses the eye of the wind, start taking in the jib sheet as fast as you can.

You should understand one simple fact. You must tail in as much of the jib sheet as possible between the time the working jib sheet is released and the time the wind has filled the jib on the new tack. Before the jib has filled on the new tack, you can tail in the sheet with your bare hands, with very little physical effort. After the sail has filled, you can only tail it in with the aid of the winch and the winch handle, unless the wind is very light. Therefore, the trick is to get the jib sheet tailed in before the sail is filled and loaded on the new tack. I will explain later how the helmsman can help the tailer in this respect.

When the tack is completed, the jib will ordinarily be trimmed for a course slightly broader than close hauled, which will help the boat accelerate out of the tack onto the new course. With a 150% genoa in windspeeds between about 9-12 kts, the distance between the jib and the spreader should be about 6-9 inches. As the boat accelerates, the tailer should watch the helmsman’s hands, and, as he steers the boat up to close hauled, the tailer should trim the jib in using the winch handle, one or two clicks at a time, to it’s optimum close hauled setting, which is usually around 4-5 inches. (I'm working from a fading memory on the exact distances. What is important to know, however, is that if a 150 on a C25 is sheeted too taut, it stalls and loses drive.) If more wraps are needed to hold the jib sheet securely, because of strong winds, you can put on the additional wraps after the tack is completed.

If you’re tacking a big, masthead-rigged boat with a big genoa, you'll have very long jib sheets to handle and you won’t have a moment’s time to waste. If you’re tacking a 25’ boat, or a boat with a fractional rig, or a boat flying a smaller headsail, you’ll find it easier to get the job done within the available time. In fact, you might even have to slow the tailing process, so you don’t overtrim the jib by bringing it down to the spreader, and have to ease it afterwards.

Helmsman

Often, the helmsman sees his function as merely to steer the boat through the tack, and he believes he is at the mercy of the release man and tailer to get his sail across and trimmed for him. The helmsman is not, however, a helpless bystander. He can help the crew. For example, he should watch for hockles, butt cleats and foot cleats, and alert the others to them.

The helmsman should not just put the helm over, and hold it there throughout the tack. He should bring the boat up head-to-wind, and then hold it there for 1-3 seconds before turning it over onto the new tack. By doing so, he achieves two benefits. First, he gives the release man and tailer more time to bring the jibsheet across. Secondly, he gains precious ground to windward. While the boat is coasting to windward, it is doing what a sailboat cannot otherwise do. It is heading straight into the wind. In smooth waters, the helmsman can hold the boat head-to-wind for a longer time than in choppy waters.

In an ordinary, uncomplicated tack, the helmsman should stop the turn when the jib is streaming just inside the new lee rail, and hold the boat on that course until the tailer has the jib sheeted in as much as possible by hand, because, after the jib is under load, the tailer can only sheet it in further with great effort and the aid of the winch. edit:[Perhaps the most common mistake by a helmsman is to steer the boat far past closehauled during a tack. How do you know when to stop the turn? I watch the vane, atop the mast. When the arrow's feathers are pointing toward the new index, I stop the turn. If the helmsman turns too far, the boat will sail away from your windward objective until the helmsman can bring it back up to closehauled. You'll lose your hard-gained ground to windward!] After the tailer has the jib sheeted in by hand, the helmsman can bear off a few more degrees and load up the jib. When he does, the jib will ordinarily be trimmed slightly fuller than it would be for sailing closehauled, and the tailer only has to use the winch to trim the sail down to its closehauled setting.

As you can see, the helmsman is the key to fast, smooth tacks. If he bears off too far or loads up the jib too soon, he can make even a strong, skilled tailer look bad. If he coordinates his turn with the tailer, their tacks will be quick and crisp.

At the start of a tack, the boat is moving at maximum speed, and its course is being lifted slightly by the apparent wind. During the tack, the boat loses speed, and accordingly loses that lift, so, when you come out of the tack you should steer a little wider than closehauled, loading up the jib on the new tack, and then the sail trimmer should bring the jib down to its closehauled trim. In coordination with the sail trimmer, the helmsman should steer the boat up to closehauled. By doing so, the boat will accelerate out of the tack with increased speed.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 05/09/2012 09:33:46

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 05/08/2012 : 18:01:27

Thanks Steve. Next time I'm out with my racing crew (so far just one guy besides myself, but I bet I can round up another easily enough) we'll have to try some of this and see if we can pull off more efficient tacks. There is a lot of useful information in your post. We've talked about racing Seattle's Duck Dodge (half race, half party) and alternating weeks between my C-25 TR and his C-22.

When you have a crew of two on the C-25 do you use the same person as the release man and the tailer, or do you combine the roles of the release man and the helmsman? I can see arguments for both, but my guess is that the same person should be handling both the working and lazy jib sheets.

Edited by - awetmore on 05/08/2012 18:02:37

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 05/09/2012 : 06:53:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
 When you have a crew of two on the C-25 do you use the same person as the release man and the tailer, or do you combine the roles of the release man and the helmsman? I can see arguments for both, but my guess is that the same person should be handling both the working and lazy jib sheets.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Those procedures have to be varied according to the practicalities of the boat. If the boat doesn't have enough room in the cockpit to permit 3-4 crew to work without tripping over each other, then you have to combine the jobs. Often, the tailer will also release. Alternatively, the helmsman might release. The procedure I described is the ideal situation, where the cockpit will accommodate 3-4 crew.

I'm presently crewing on a 40' masthead-rigged racer, and, when we have a full crew, we have 4 in the cockpit; helmsman, two crew working the primary winches, and one guy tending the mainsheet. When on a tack, the person on the working sheet is the release man, and the person on the lazy sheet is the tailer. After tacking, the two crew switch assignments. In that way, the tailer and the release man don't have to physically move to opposite sides of the boat after a tack.

If we're shorthanded, then sometimes I'll release on one side and tail on the other side. Alternatively, sometimes the helmsman will release and I'll tail on both sides. Alternatively, the mainsheet crew will release and I'll tail on both sides. When shorthanded, you have to adjust your crew assignments to whatever works.

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Prospector
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Response Posted - 05/09/2012 : 08:15:07

Great posts Steve! Well written!

On Iris when we have a crew of 3, we will have a release and trim person on high wind days, but in lighter winds I want weight forward and I would rather have the third person skirting the jib around the stays.

In lighter wind the release/trim is actually harder since you have a bigger sail and less wind to push it around the tack. I also find that in light and variable conditions the tacks/gybes happen with much higher frequency as the wind sshifts around. Often the foredeck crew will end up sitting on the lee side of the boat inducing false heel just to hold the genoa off the shrouds.

When a call comes to tack, the helmsman will very lightly enter the turn in order to reduce the amount of speed lost. Foredeck will wait until the sail collapses, then take it in their hand and guide it around the shrouds as the boat goes through the turn. At the same time the genoa trimmer will let out/haul in. Once the sail is skirted, foredeck will take up position on the lee rail forward of the mast.

If you can keep you sails filled this way, the lighter displacement of a C-25 will let you pass by some pretty tricked out boats in light air.

Case in point: http://littleboatiris.blogspot.ca/2009/06/racing-like-were-racing-pt-1.html - this was with a crew of 2 - helm also manned jibsheets while foredeck skirted.

Edited by - Prospector on 05/09/2012 08:16:45

NCBrew
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Response Posted - 05/10/2012 : 05:03:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by awetmore
 I made this map of my sailing track from Sunday:
http://phred.org/~alex/maps/sailing/4-6-2012/

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I tried to make a map using GPS visulizer and google earth using my typed in points like 36N and -76W but it shows 75 EAST.

Any help.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 05/10/2012 : 06:09:35

Pat, try removing the "-" from "-75w". The "w" and "-" mean the same thing, so having both is a double negative. If I enter 36n ,75w, I get a position off of [url="http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/Maps/US2/35.37.-76.-74.php"]Nag's Head.[/url]

Here's one on [url="http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/data/1336672698-09837-66.235.21.28.html"]GPS Visualizer[/url]. You may have to zoom out a bit to see Nag's Head by using the ladder type control on the left side of the page.

I was using my phone earlier it's much easier to do this stuff on a regular computer.

Edited by - delliottg on 05/10/2012 11:02:56

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 05/10/2012 : 06:38:05

Racers know this, but for less experienced sailors, one of the most common mistakes when tacking is slamming the tiller over to turn as quickly as possible. The tiller should move somewhat smoothly from centered to no more than 45 degrees, past which it tends to brake instead of steer. If you watch an Americas Cup skipper, he turns the wheel slowly into a tack so the rudder drags as little as possible while the boat gains rotational momentum from the turn. Then he turns the wheel slowly back as the boat approaches the new course--again to minimize drag--no spinning of the wheel, and no turning to the "lock" position! This all works in conjunction with the timing elements Steve describes, and helps to maintain momentum and therefore speed. With an outboard rudder as on the C-25/250, if you hear the sounds of a lot of turbulence from the rudder, you're probably pushing it too far or too quickly--it's the sound of slowing.

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dmpilc
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Response Posted - 05/10/2012 : 07:48:54

Another thing that helps the jib sheet handler when racing. Using electrical tape, place a strip of tape on the coaming a few inches in front of the winch. Sail close hauled and sheet in the jib the tightest you want it to be, such as just barely touching the spreader. Wrap another piece of tape on the sheet to line up with the tape on the coaming. This gives you a sight reference when sheeting in and you won't need to look up at the sail.

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JohnP
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Response Posted - 05/10/2012 : 08:51:51

When informally racing other boats on the bay singlehanded, I find it a lot of fun to call out commands for each tack and to try to get as close to Steve's ideal manoever as I can,as release man, tailer and helmsman. If one of us screws up, he gets a tongue-lashing from the skipper! Or worse, no grog!

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 05/10/2012 : 09:10:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JohnP
 When informally racing other boats on the bay singlehanded, I find it a lot of fun to call out commands for each tack and to try to get as close to Steve's ideal manoever as I can,as release man, tailer and helmsman. If one of us screws up, he gets a tongue-lashing from the skipper! Or worse, no grog!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Talking to yourself is a sign of old age, ya know, but depriving yourself of grog is taking it much too far!

Edited by - Steve Milby on 05/10/2012 09:11:20

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 05/10/2012 : 10:25:12

Steve, thanks for the crew duties write-up. Excellent. By any chance do you have that in a format, word or pdf, that you could email me? I've sent a link to this thread to everyone in our C-22 fleet.

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Ape-X
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Response Posted - 05/10/2012 : 10:32:00

dmpilc: copy paste???

mom always told me it was impolite to point

Steve, great write-up. It is always interesting to hear "slow down to speed up", another case of just that. I do appreciate the advice as well on the helmsman duties in a tack, stalling slightly straight upwind to gain ground, and a reminder that as your speed increases, so does your pointing ability. Those are a couple of really good points to be reminded of: THANKS

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Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
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Response Posted - 05/10/2012 : 12:10:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ape-X
 dmpilc: copy paste?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Works perfectly into Word.

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