Association Forum - Number of Batteries vs Led's

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Number of Batteries vs Led's

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Member Avatar

USA
4303 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/18/2012 : 18:50:24

I rarely sail at night and when I do it's only for 3 or 4 hours at most.

As you know I've been having battery problems lately. I bought a couple of Group 27 Exide Deep Cycle batteries a couple of weeks ago. I decided this past weekend that they were too big for my battery compartment so I took them back and got my money back.

Another factor was I decided to go with Interstate instead of Exide even though they are more expensive. I've never had any problems with Interstates.

Today I've been wondering if I should just go with one BIG battery (maybe a Group 31) set sideways in the battery compartment and install LED's everywhere including running lights. My thought is if I go with one battery I could use the money I saved by not buying the second battery to help offset the price of converting to LED's.

All comments and suggestions are welcomed.

Association Member

GaryB
Andiamo
'89 SR/WK #5862
Kemah,TX

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

Members Avatar

USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2012 : 03:09:53

In my first boat (1974) my lights were a battery powered tilly lamp in the cabin and a battery powered all ine one running light. There were no fixed lights on the boat at all.

But I never sailed after dark! So they worked great for me. I even carried spare batteries for them.

Now, on JD, we spend at least 3 nights on board and need all the juice we can get for our Instruments, Lights, TV, AC, Fridge/Freezer, Radio(s) Phone chargers, etc. etc.

So if one battery will do it for you, then stick with it.

Paul

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2012 : 04:52:00

Yup, I got two only because I stay the night and want to run electronics. If I were only a day sailer, I'd easily stick to just one battery. Even that could run a radio all day.

The problem with two batteries is the attention you need to give them. If one dies, it'll kill the other. One definitely has its benefits.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2012 : 04:59:18

I am using two group 24 batteries connected in parallel. This doubles the amp hours of the battery bank. In addition, it keeps each battery from discharging deeply. The downside is, if the batteries do get run down, I might have to pull-start the outboard to get running.

A group 31 battery will give 105Ah, two group 24 in parallel will give 150Ah. The other thing to consider is weight distribution. If I remove my batteries, the boat will list to port. A single group 31 may weigh less than two 24.

In 8 years I've replaced the batteries twice. I purchased the Energizer brand from Sams Club and have not had any problems. I think they are about half the cost of the name brands. YMMV.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3441 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2012 : 05:03:09

Gary,

Going with one battery is probably okay. Anyway, I am not totally convinced that two batteries last twice as long as one but two generally have higher capacity than one. Going with one higher amp capacity battery would probably be fine even if you do not switch to all LEDs. But if you do not have dockside electricity to charge your battery, then I would use the extra dough saved not buying the second battery to invest in a solar panel and controller (forget if you have a solar panel).

As far as LEDs go, I still have some qualms over just substituting an LED bulb for asn incandescent bulb. When I replaced my anchor light, I went with a LED fixture that was USCG approved. USCG only approves fixtures and not bulbs alone. The cost of some of the LED Fixtures has come down considerably compared to say 5-6 years ago when I replaced my anchor light. Back then, I was interested in a Lopolight for replacing my port and starboard Nav light. But a Lopolight back then and even now is super expensive. I seem to recall it being upwards of ~ $200. But nowadays, Aquasignal and a few others sell LED fixtures that are also USCG approved and cost believe less than half the cost of a Lopolight or the OGM Orcagreen that I used for an anchor light. Of course, if you just go the LED bulb replacing an incandescent bulb route - Lot, lot less expensive !!

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2012 : 05:10:38

I've replaced my running lights and anchor light with DrLED bulbs. I am convinced they are brighter than the old Aqua Signal 10w Incandescents.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2012 : 06:32:50

The DC system was one of the very first systems on my boat I fixed after purchase. I bought 2 marine deep cycles from Academy, matched with 105 aH each for a total of 210 aH in the bank. It's not unusual for me to leave the marina on Friday and not come back until Sunday evening.

I listen to the radio, use cabin lights, running lights briefly, and run a fan in the v-berth. My cabin lights are all LED fixtures....my non-operative anchor light is at this time, an LED lantern I got from Walmart, runs on 4 D cells, and I hoist it up with the jib halyard.

I seem to have plenty of juice for the whole weekend. The biggest draw for me is my radio...it's a Kenwood car stereo and draws about 3 aH at the volume I run it, so I don't run it the whole time. The cabin lights draw 0.18 (or so) aH each, so I can light the whole boat, 5 lights, for less than 1 of the old fixtures...they were 1.44 aH each.

Before I bought my batteries, I went through the whole boat and did an electrical inventory. I added up every draw to the battery, then put together a few scenarios such as running everything, running what I need, overnight use, etc...and came up with a most likely "normal profile" amp hour usage estimate. I bought batteries based on that.

I also bought a nice Guest charger/maintainer....I got lucky with that one because I bought the nicest one Academy had, it was on sale for a really good price....so I just happened to stumble on that one.

Do an electrical inventory of everything....come up with your most likely usage profile.....and buy based on that.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 04/19/2012 : 14:19:53

Larry - You're saying Aquasignal now sells the LED fixtures like the original incandescent fistures that came on our '89's. I've looked at Academy several tmes but heaven't seen any of the LED fixtures. I look up the LED's on Aquasignals website tonight.

Looks like OGM has merged with another company to provide complete marine lighting --->>> http://miseagroup.com/

Joe -- Did you get Gruop 24's? I thought I remembered you mentioning getting Group 31's. If 31's did you mount them across the battery box or lengthwise?

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3441 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 03:57:41

Gary,

You are right ! OGM appears to have gone thru a merger. They have the anchor light that looks like what I purchased 6 years ago but it did not indicate it has the photodiode which I have on mine - turns off the light automatically when the sun comes up. But the cost is still way up there over $200.

I checked the West Marine on-line catalog and Aquasignal does sell the LED fixtures but they are more expensive than what I had recalled - Probably because I was comparing apples to oranges ... OGM or Lopolight combo LED nav lights to Aquasignal single fixtures for Port and starboard bow lights. The Aquasignal LED anchor light is also expensive but a little less than the other brands..coming in around $199.

I really like the design of the Lopolight bow light which is both port and starboard bow lights in same fixture but the cost is so expensive and the only reasons to change out to LEDs would be for low amp draw and much higher reliability. Reliablity (long life) is mostly important for anchor light replacement since it is not easy to change that bulb unless you drop the mast. But a bow or stern light, the bulb is easy to change out and so it may be only one night when the incandescent bulb burns out that you have to do without until bulb replacement when back in the slip. Though, I recall on two different occasions when I first had a bow light give out and then another time when a stern light bit the dust and I was bummed out not having those lights for other boats to see...especially th eone time when I had an annoying motor boat practice is high beam spotlight on me.

I have to admit, given reliability issue mostly, since I have a solar panel that recharges all the time, I did buy an LED bulb (for my stern light fixture) at the Annapolis Boat Show a year or two ago and have it on the shelf in the cabin for that day when I decide to replace the incandescent bulb. It was supposedly rated for 1-2 miles. So, even though not USCG approved, hard to argue with the price differnece between bulb replacement vs fixture replacement. In this case, I'm willing to believe the marketing hype that it is visible from same distance as original incandescent bulb.

Edited by - on

C25OBrien
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
44 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 07:25:59

I stay on the boat for 3 days at a time and run the stereo (6 speakers), phone chargers, fans and lights all night. I have a group 24 and a group 27 powered by a 90 watt solar panel. I have never once ran out of juice. I am on a mooring so I charge the batteries once in the spring and then the panel charges them for the next 6 months. My panel is a 'sample' panel for a home from the local solar installation business, but I think that the prices for retail panels have gone down significantly. Look into it, I couldn't be without it - it charges all day while you are sailing. The group 24 and 27 fit perfectly on the starboard battery shelf.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 07:48:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 Joe -- Did you get Gruop 24's? I thought I remembered you mentioning getting Group 31's. If 31's did you mount them across the battery box or lengthwise?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Pretty sure the ones I bought were 31's....they're 105aH each. Bigger than the 24's but not too big to fit. I put them end to end in the starboard settee battery compartment, and I've got about an inch or so between the batteries themselves, and the same between the batteries and the compartment walls.

It's a "snug" fit, but looks like the compartment was made for two of these batteries. Before I bought them, there were 2 mismatched car batteries in there, one was dead the other barely alive. There was alot of extra room with those in there.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 09:20:31

The Group 27's I bought at Academy were were 105 aH's each but they were too big to fit in the battery boxes that my old batteries were in. They fit side by side across the main battery compartment. Because they were too big I took them back.

Has anyone ever had the CG stop them and pull the bulbs out of the fixtures to see if they are CG approved? I would think the CG would just be glad you had lights that worked and were turned on!

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2272 Posts

Response Posted - 04/20/2012 : 19:28:43

Whatever you do, don't put a white LED bulb into a red or green running light fixture that was originally designed for incandescent. The white LEDs emit on a very narrow spectrum of wavelengths, and passing their light through a normal red or green filter will likely yield much dimmer light that is the wrong color. In addition to being unsafe, this would get you pulled over by USCG.

If you want LEDs for red/green running lights, you need to buy the special ones that were designed for marine use. Usually they involve LEDs that emit red or green light passed through a compatible color filter that is tuned to the wavelength of the LED bulb.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 08:29:52

I might just repalce the whole nav light assy's on my boat but I'd like ot go with LED. Looking at Aqua Signals website I don't see any direct replacement assy's for the Series 25. Am I missing something?

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2272 Posts

Response Posted - 04/21/2012 : 20:52:53

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1574

Edited by - on

Tradewind
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
531 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2012 : 05:40:41

I've kept my system as simple as possible. I have a group 24 with a small solar panel for charging. I've replaced the bulbs in the stern, bow and anchor Aquasignal assemblies with the appropriate LED bulbs. I kept the original steaming light bulb since the motor would be running and charging the battery with that light illuminated. The only draw while sailing is the stereo. I do plan to get LEDs for the interior for night sailing and anchoring but so far I've had no dead battery problems.

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/22/2012 : 05:53:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1574<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Those bulb replacements are the DrLED brand LEDs. You can also pick them up at WM. I think they are actually less expensive there.

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2012 : 04:44:27

I just ordered all new LED fixtures: SeaSense 4" accent lights, including one fixture with dual red and white LED's. I will have some mounting holes to cover up, but a good price. Whole boat sorted: $65

iboats dot com

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 04/23/2012 : 11:10:11

Can you reply back once you've installed them with how bright they appear to be? One downside with LED fixtures is that they are rarely advertised with their light output, making it difficult to do comparisons. LED technology is changing way too fast to make predictions based on power consumption.

I've been experimenting with different LED fixtures around our boat. I still haven't found ones that I like a lot for the main cabin. The DrLED MARS dome lights are nice the berths. In the head I'm just using the original fixtures with new LED bulbs installed.

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2012 : 03:58:31

sure will. Because our boat is so small, I went with Accent lights, at 12 LED's per fixture, I think they will be adequate.

Edited by - on

Joe Diver
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1218 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2012 : 06:36:40

Alex...I replaced all of my fixtures last year with the ones from [url="http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1941"]Catalina Direct[/url]. I paid a premium for them compared to what else is out there, but so far I'm very happy with them. The color is good and the light output is very good.

Here are some pictures....taken at night....with my iPhone...no flash....so the quality isn't very good but gives you an idea of how good they are: (They look much better in person)

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2012 : 07:32:04

I am in process of converting from a mix of incandescant/LED to halogen. I was not impressed with the colour profile on the LED's and the Catalina originals were not meeting my needs.

By relocating and deleting a few lights (and adding one) I think I am getting bang for my amps.

I have ugly wires to blend in now, but I think I can handle that. I have relocated teh lights over the settees to the ceiling. In the Vee berth I got a pair of aimable lights and installed them on the bulkhead. I removed the galley light altogether. I will relocate the light in the head. The quareterberth light will be replaced with a nice brass fixture.

Since everyone is going to LEDs, halogen fixtures are on sale everywhere right now. They draw a little less than incandescants, but far more than LEDs. By moving the lights to teh ceiling I find I get better "spread" though and do not need as many on at a time. I also find that the incandescant lights have a warmer profile to their colour and are more inviting. http://littleboatiris.blogspot.ca/2012/03/let-there-be-light.html

I zig where others zag though.

Edited by - Prospector on 04/24/2012 07:37:30

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 04/24/2012 : 21:23:22

I found some Interstate SRM-24 batteries at Gander Mountain the other day. They are $89.95/ea but they only had one and when I asked the only person I could find that worked there he seemed to be inconvenieced when I ask him for a price check. After all he had to reach up and press a button on his 2-way radio to ask the girl up front for the price.

I called a Goodyear store near my office and they wanted $126/ea and had none in stock so I decided to call Gander Mountain back. I spoke to a different person who had only slightly more interest in checking to see if they'd received anymore SRM-24's since Sunday. They had not and he said he had no clue when they would get another shipment.

Late this afternoon I called an RV store and they had the same battery for $96/each and they had six in stock. Unfortunately I didn't have my cores with me.

Bottom line, I'll probably go to the RV shop tomorrow and pickup the Interstates. They are about $30 more each than the Exides at Academy but they have higher ratings in all spec's and I feel more comfortable with Interstates. I've always gotten good life out of Interstates and I don't feel like experimenting with another brand.

The other bottom line, Gander Mountain s&%^s and I will never go back. I honestly don't think they had more than 4 employees in the enter store and the place was empty on a Sunday afternoon. The employees were totally apathetic and worthless.

Academy on the other hand was packed and all of their employees were VERY interested in helping the customers.

Edited by - on

Ape-X
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
662 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2012 : 04:08:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 I am in process of converting from a mix of incandescant/LED to halogen. I was not impressed with the colour profile on the LED's and the Catalina originals were not meeting my needs.

By relocating and deleting a few lights (and adding one) I think I am getting bang for my amps.

I have ugly wires to blend in now, but I think I can handle that. I have relocated teh lights over the settees to the ceiling. In the Vee berth I got a pair of aimable lights and installed them on the bulkhead. I removed the galley light altogether. I will relocate the light in the head. The quareterberth light will be replaced with a nice brass fixture.

Since everyone is going to LEDs, halogen fixtures are on sale everywhere right now. They draw a little less than incandescants, but far more than LEDs. By moving the lights to teh ceiling I find I get better "spread" though and do not need as many on at a time. I also find that the incandescant lights have a warmer profile to their colour and are more inviting. http://littleboatiris.blogspot.ca/2012/03/let-there-be-light.html

I zig where others zag though.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There is a convenient hiding location along the top, it's a molded fiberglass ridge hiding the screws for the genoa track. Use some adhesive backed pads made for zip ties: sorted.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2012 : 05:48:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ape-X
 There is a convenient hiding location along the top, it's a molded fiberglass ridge hiding the screws for the genoa track. Use some adhesive backed pads made for zip ties: sorted.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yup - I am well aware of that spot, but I have moved the lights out from under that overhang. It looks like this right now (I need to make up mouldings):

Edited by - Prospector on 04/25/2012 05:50:00

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2012 : 09:19:20

I also think that the lights would be better mounted up there. I wonder if running the wires up the edge of the bulkhead then along the edge of the pop-top would make them a bit more out of the way and easier to hide.

With low-current LEDs I bet that there are some flat stick-on wires (often used for speakers) that could be run more discretely too.

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.