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Whisker Pole time...

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calden
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USA
194 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/07/2012 : 17:51:57

I am getting a whisker pole for my upcoming birthday. I am so happy, and it surely must mean something that an 8' length of aluminum tubing with funny things on the ends can please me so much.

The standard Forespar 407101 7-15' is what I am getting for my Catalina 25. It is available from several vendors at a dizzying array of prices. Catalina Direct has a Forespar Whisker Pole which appears to be that model, but states that it telescopes in three sections, rather than what appears to be two sections as the model available from West Marine, Defender, etc.

Is this true? Is this a slightly different version? If so, is there any functional difference in usage, weight, sturdiness, etc.?

Thanks much if you have some info about this. Happy Birthday to me.

Carlos

S/V Mazama
1983 FK SR
#3682

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 03/07/2012 : 18:37:32

Catalina Direct says it's pole opens to a maximum of 169" which is 14 feet. Defender says the Forespar 407101 opens to a maximum of 15'. I suspect one of them is in error, because Forespar's whisker pole selection guide for Catalinas doesn't list a 14' pole at all. It recommends the Forespar 407101 for a C25. http://www.forespar.com/whisker2011.shtml Defender's website says their pole extends in three sections, like the Catalina Diredct pole. [Defender says it's "Three section pole stores at only 7 feet, yet extends to 15 feet."] I can't be sure, but think the Catalina Direct pole is the same as the Defender's Forespar 407101.

Happy birthday! You're going to love the new pole!

Edited by - Steve Milby on 03/07/2012 18:38:10

NautiC25
Admiral

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USA
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Response Posted - 03/07/2012 : 18:38:20

I have a Forespar and I believe it is the same 7-15' model. It does extend in 3 sections.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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4593 Posts

Response Posted - 03/07/2012 : 19:23:33

Ditto, 3 sections. One thing to keep in mind. When you collapse it completely, the inner tubes will block the spring-loaded clasp at the larger diameter end, because the pin extends beyond the end fitting housing.
Makes it seem like the end fitting is broken, but it isn't. When you pull the first (middle) section out about 2", the end fitting works just fine. You will love it.
We bought ours from Defender. If you can find a few people to go in together and buy 3-4 of them, you just might get a discount as well as save on shipping. We bought 4, three for C-22's and the bigger one for our C-25.
The ADJ7-15 does collape to under 8' so it will ship UPS.

Edited by - dmpilc on 03/07/2012 19:24:34

julius pignataro
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Response Posted - 03/26/2012 : 12:58:47

The AdJ 7-15 DL 3section is correct for the 25ft Catalina.I just received one from Cataline Direct at a fair price.
Does anyone know what to set the height for the mast pad eye, using a 135 genoa?

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blanik
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Canada
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Response Posted - 03/26/2012 : 15:26:34

mine came with a small 1-1/2" diameter, two piece extensible pole with a plastic needle at one end (that you just put in the clew, it hold there by the genoa sheet pulling on the clew) and a regular clipping bracket at the other end, there's a plastic eye on the mast to clip the pole on the mast (but i found an inexpensive metal one at the marine store so i'll change the ring to the metal one)...

inexpensive, does the job and easy to move around

Edited by - on

dmpilc
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Response Posted - 03/26/2012 : 20:47:24

Julius, you want the whisker pole to point slightly downward toward the clew of the sail. Depending on your head sail configuration, that will likely place the ring close to or a bit higher than the boom. The best solution is to raise the genoa at the dock with some help and connect the pole to the sail and mark the desired position on the mast with a pencil. If you don't have room in your slip, move to the end of the pier for the test.

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julius pignataro
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Response Posted - 03/27/2012 : 08:31:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 Julius, you want the whisker pole to point slightly downward toward the clew of the sail. Depending on your head sail configuration, that will likely place the ring close to or a bit higher than the boom. The best solution is to raise the genoa at the dock with some help and connect the pole to the sail and mark the desired position on the mast with a pencil. If you don't have room in your slip, move to the end of the pier for the test.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Thank you for the information. We are sailing on lake Tahoe Ca. Still snow here, will try your solution with boat on the hard.
Catp. Julius

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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1773 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2012 : 16:58:47

Defender's Warehouse Sale is this weekend, so if you plan to buy it from them now is the time to save!

Edited by - on

calden
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194 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2012 : 18:50:29

Got it!

By luck I happened upon Defender's sale and am happy with the price. I sometimes try to get my local West Marine to come at least close to price matching, but I did not even try this time. They would have just cried. But heck, Over the years I've probably already helped several WM employess put down payments on new cars.

Edited by - on

calden
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194 Posts

Response Posted - 04/13/2012 : 08:29:02

Question about usage of my new toy...

I've read through the different discussions about between the shrouds or not... So how DO most whiskerites use the poles? I am NOT going to clip the end to the clew, but rather run the sheet through the whisker pole fitting.

Rigged this way, is the consensus then that the pole can safely be placed between the shrouds? Or is it better to place it fore of the forewards shroud?

Thanks,
Carlos

Edited by - on

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/13/2012 : 09:14:17

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Rigged this way, is the consensus then that the pole can safely be placed between the shrouds? Or is it better to place it fore of the forewards shroud? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The last time I used my whisker pole, I toyed with the idea of running it between the shrouds, but did not. I think with the sheet running thru the fitting you would not have any problem. Having said that, I usually keep the pole forward of the shrouds. It just seems easier to rig it up, to me anyhow. To do so, I usually have my 135 rolled up a turn or two.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/13/2012 : 09:47:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by calden
 Question about usage of my new toy...

Rigged this way, is the consensus then that the pole can safely be placed between the shrouds? Or is it better to place it fore of the forewards shroud?

Thanks,
Carlos
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Depends on sail size. With our 155% we always go between. With the 110% we go forward. We have hank-on sails.

Last time I got caught singlehanded in a front with the pole forward of the shrouds, I ended up with the pole and genoa wrapped around the forestay when I tried to ease it to bring down the sail. That would never have happened with it against the shroud.

Of course I was setting personal best speeds at the time and surfing some pretty fantastic waves, but then I ended up finishing the race as DNF due to the damage the sail took.

Edited by - Prospector on 04/13/2012 09:54:38

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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Response Posted - 04/13/2012 : 10:04:52

You should only have to set the pole between the stays if it is a 6-12 pole. If it is a 7-17 pole, it shouldn't be necessary. If the pole isn't set between the stays, then, if you want to spill the genoa quickly, all you have to do is let it swing forward to the forestay. If it's set between the stays, you have to go forward and take the pole down before you can spill the air out of the genoa, and that might not be easy to do in a strong gust.

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Response Posted - 04/13/2012 : 11:14:08

Well - whatever my pole was, it is now a foot shorter. It did spill the wind quickly though. Like flash-bang quickly.

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dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/13/2012 : 12:42:32

IMHO putting the pole between the shrouds is taking a dangerous risk. I always set it in front of the shrouds, and I prefer the flexibility that position offers.

Edited by - on

calden
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Response Posted - 04/14/2012 : 08:55:32

Great advice. Went out yesterday and tried the new pole.

I had and used a whisker pole on my Daysailer 17 and my San Juan 21. Easy to set and easy to use.

This was different, however. Even though winds were light (5-8) I had the jibsail (110) up because the water in our far northern mountain is still very cold. No surprises wanted this time of year for the first recreational sail of the season.

Even with light winds (winds got even a bit lighter at this point) I expected the sail to fly, but the weight of the pole (Forespar 7-15') just kept the line pulled down. I tried the pole fore of the shrouds and between the shrouds, but could not get the sail to stay out. I tried different lengths on the pole.

1) This pole is much heavier than my previous poles for the smaller boats. Do I just need more wind?

2) I do not have a pole lift line. Is that needed for this weight pole?

3) What else am I missing....

Thanks, probably just need more time tinkering with it.

Carlos

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 04/14/2012 : 09:49:32

I'm puzzled because if you had the pole extended as far as it would go with the 110, and if it was locked at that length, the sail couldn't collapse. The pole would hold it out, regardless of the wind, or lack of it. Even in a complete absence of wind, the pole would still stretch out the sail. If the wind was too light, the sail might not billow out smoothly, but as long as the sail is spread out, it will catch whatever air movement exists.

When running downwind, aerodynamic flow over the mainsail has very little to do with the drive generated by the mainsail. The wind just pushes against the mainsail.

On my C25, I never rigged a topping lift for the whisker pole. Since aerodynamic flow isn't relevant, the only thing that matters is spreading the maximum sail area possible. Sail shape generally isn't relevant when running downwind. Kretschmer used a topping lift in the video primarily because it helped in handling the big, long, heavy pole that was stored up the mast. I have the same size pole on my C&C 35, but it's all aluminum and thus a little heavier, and I don't rig a topping lift. It doesn't affect the sail shape in any adverse way.

When the windspeed is 5-8 kts and fading, you can't expect much speed downwind, especially with only a 110. The boat would have done better with a 150, but even then, it wouldn't have been very fast. Remember, dead downwind is the slowest point of sail.

Using a whisker pole will help generate much better speed downwind than with no pole, but it's all relevant, and in light air, it won't seem like much.

Edited by - on

Davy J
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Response Posted - 04/14/2012 : 10:11:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">but the weight of the pole (Forespar 7-15') just kept the line pulled down.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This came up in another thread and I had this photo:

I have a CDI furler so I use my spare halyard as the topping lift. In this photo, my head-sail is not completely unfurled, about two turns remain.

Edited by - on

calden
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Response Posted - 04/14/2012 : 15:05:53

Steve, it's not that the sail collapsed (poor choice of words) but rather that the whisker pole weight was pulling the clew down and it couldn't catch any air. I bet there wasn't just enough wind. I want it to look like Davy j's picture! That's my experience of using a whisker pole on the smaller boats.

I'll try again next week. Maybe it's just getting the pole length just right with conditions and sail size and needs some experience on a (to me) larger boat.

Carlos

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Response Posted - 04/14/2012 : 15:22:35

One other thing - which end fio teh pole did you have clipped to the mast, and how high on the mast track? I clip the larger end of the pole to teh mast and make adjustments in the middle section. I also use the spin halyard as a topping lift on the pole to keep it perpendicular to the mast.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
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Response Posted - 04/14/2012 : 16:05:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by calden
 

Steve, it's not that the sail collapsed (poor choice of words) but rather that the whisker pole weight was pulling the clew down and it couldn't catch any air. I bet there wasn't just enough wind. I want it to look like Davy j's picture! That's my experience of using a whisker pole on the smaller boats.

I'll try again next week. Maybe it's just getting the pole length just right with conditions and sail size and needs some experience on a (to me) larger boat.

Carlos
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
If the sail was spread out, as in Davy's picture, but the sailcloth was just hanging limp, then the weight of the pole had nothing to do with it. The sail in Davy's pic is filled and smooth because it has a strong enough wind to lift the weight of the sailcloth. Your sailcloth probably weighs 5-6 ounces, and it takes a certain amount of wind pressure to lift that weight. I have seen light air spinnakers that have half ounce or 3/4 ounce cloth that hang limp when there isn't enough wind to lift it. If there's enough wind to lift your sailcloth, the sail will be filled and smooth, notwithstanding the weight of the pole. When the wind is strong enough to lift the weight of the sailcloth, the sail will be generating enough power to lift the weight of the pole.

Edited by - on

calden
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Response Posted - 04/14/2012 : 18:17:21

Great feedback. Prospector - what kind of a harness or loop do you have on your pole to attache the spin halyard to?

Thanks much,
Carlos

Edited by - on

calden
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Response Posted - 05/08/2012 : 06:25:51

One more question about the whisker pole...

Do I, can I, use the attached loop at the end fitting as a topping lift attachment? It would seem to work for that - but not being wire rope (it's dyneema or something) I am not sure that is the intended use.

Thanks,

Carlos

Edited by - on

Davy J
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Response Posted - 05/08/2012 : 06:47:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Do I, can I, use the attached loop at the end fitting as a topping lift attachment?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I use the loops as the attachment point for my spare halyard "topping lift".

Edited by - on

calden
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Response Posted - 05/08/2012 : 08:08:49

Thanks, Davy J!

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