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Single-handed configuration

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2011 : 13:34:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 I've considered self-tailing winches, but I see problems with them related to my personal sailing technique when singlehanding. When preparing to tack, I first take the lazy sheet and put two wraps on the winch then transfer the winch handle (the one without the lock) to the lazy winch. Then with the jib sheet uncleated and me holding the tail (there may still be four wraps on the drum) I tack while seated on the windward (high) side. As the boat moves through the wind, from the opposite side of the cockpit, I quickly flip the wraps off the now non-working winch then haul in the working jib sheet. With a self tailing winch and its feeder arm, I'd envision there might be problems flipping the sheet from the winch at a distance.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I single hand almost exclusively and I tack exactly as you described. I've never had a an issue with the sheet getting caught on any part of my self-tailers. I love 'em, wouldn't do it any other way.

But as others have stated it really boils down to what each person is comfortable with and the only way to figure that out is by sailing your boat and deciding how you want it set up.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2011 : 13:37:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Pastmember
Single handing is a matter of style, taste...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Then I should probably not try single handing, as I've never been accused of having either.

Dlucier - that looks more like a ghost pilot than an autopilot! Very cool!

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2011 : 14:25:57

Regarding winching the main, if you observe scallops between the lugs on your main after hoisting you can use the winch to apply enough pressure to smooth out the luff. As others have mentioned this usually can be accomplished on the C25 series of boat by some firm tugs on the halyard.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 10/05/2011 : 19:40:17

My rambling thoughts: I would caution against an autopilot ($$) until you are comfortable singlehanding. Nothing like losing an electrical device at an inopportune time. You will find that nothing happens as fast on a C-25 as on an A-14, so singlehanding is easier than you might expect. Learn to cross-sheet - use the leeward winch as a turning block and sheet with the windward -, Steve will show you if he is going with you. I have never had an inclination to raise the main with a winch - I easily raise to the masthead and tension with a downhaul at the gooseneck.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2011 : 06:42:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 ..I easily raise to the masthead and tension with a downhaul at the gooseneck.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The '89 has a fixed gooseneck.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/06/2011 06:43:47

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2011 : 06:50:52

Mine is an '84. The PO said he "lowered the boom to make the boat go faster". I'm not sure I agree with the logic there. I think I'll be moving the gooseneck/boom back up an inch or two to give more clearance for the pop-top.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2011 : 09:09:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dave5041
 I would caution against an autopilot ($$) until you are comfortable singlehanding.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Oddly, I didn't get comfortable with singlehanding until after I got an autopilot.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2011 : 09:39:09

I singlehand often, and have never had an issue with the regular cleats and no self tailers. I raise the main by hand, but will sometimes put a turn on the cabintop winch and give a tug to snug things up. The jib goes up like a dream.

For the sheets, put on a couple turns, put teh helm over, and let go, the boat will hold the helm in place through a tack. I sheet while the boat turns, and usually don't need a winch handle. If the boat turns faster than I can sheet the sail in (light air), I straddle the tiller, and winch with one hand while tailing with the other. Driving with you knees is not hard to do. If I'm lazy, I just put my leg over the tiller and drive with teh back of my knee, while winching. If I am adjusting trim without tacking, I can usually drive with teh back of my leg while cranking on the winch. I will cross-sheet in heavy wind, then I apply pressure with my leg, and tail with one hand while driving with teh other.

Its like riding a motorbike. Both hands and feet are involved.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2011 : 10:12:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 Mine is an '84...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Oops--wrong boat. Then you probably have a sliding gooseneck you can set wherever you want. A downhaul from the hole in the bottom of the gooseneck can pull the boom down after the main is fully hoisted, to tension the luff. Make sure that as you raise the main, you don't lift the gooseneck to the mast gate, where it can fall out of the track. ("Mast gate plates" are another topic you can search for...)

I essentially "fixed" my gooseneck between two sail-track-stops that fit into the track and have thumbscrews to tighten them in position. Then I tensioned the luff with the halyard--no winch.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 10/06/2011 10:14:12

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3441 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2011 : 10:43:30

I single hand 90% of the time and do similar as Prospector Chris indicated. I have self tailing winches and so use that for the sheets. I never use the winch handle. I sheet across the cockpit to the opposite winch and if I need to tighten it up, I pull the mid-section of the sheet toward me and winch the slack out of it. I do not have a auto-tiller or a tiller lock. When I am going to take down the main, I use the excess line from the furling rig and wrap it around the tiller handle 2-3 times and then cleat a few turns on a cleat but not cleated - just to hold it in place while I go topsides to pull down and secure the main. no issues single hand sailing.

I have considered getting an auto-tiller but since I sail on the river, I am frequently tacking unless wind is favorable to go up and down stream.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/06/2011 : 10:48:04

Larry, I lived in NOVA for 13 years, and one of the things that killed me was not being near the ocean. Had I realized that the Potomac was deep enough to be able to handle a nice size sailboat, I think I might have been more willing to stay there! I still get down there periodically for work; I'll have to keep an eye out for you on the river.

Thanks for the feedback!

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3441 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2011 : 04:20:48

Jim,

You are also welcome to come sailing if in the area except that...for first time in 6 years, I will have my boat out of the water for 2-5 months for a blister repair/waterproofing that starts with going down river to a marina that can handle the job and that starts ~ 18Oct. John P is also semi-Wash metro area, he is up on the Magothy River about 15-20 min north of Annapolis. We have both sailed together on each other's boat and I am sure he would extend the opportunity as well.

I could keep my boat on The Chesapeake which would be ideal sailing and I could anchor and jump off the boat but in the Potomac River up near the Washington Channel/Natl Airport area, there are some that will go in the water but you risk getting the flesh eating bacteria, etc. The sailing, though, is decent and there are more sailboats in the upper Potomac River than one would normally consider. My Marina has mostly motorboats and I am on the DC side of the river but just south on the river is the Washington Sailing Marina and they always are bustling with activity between sailing clubs, sailing lessons and they have perhaps 150 sailboats in floating finger slips and maybe 100+ on trailors that sailors either lower into the water from ramps or using the 3 or so remote controlled winches that raise the boats and then they swing them waterside and lower them in. The real benefit and why I have my boat on the river is that it is only 5-10 minutes by car down the road from where I work and now that they constructed a "river walk", I could literally walk to my boat which would be about a 25 minute walk almost directly along the waterfront and then going behind Natl Stadium. Having a marina close to work and fairly close to home enables me to easily perform maintenance or go sailing wekdays as well as weekends and especially when we have those iffy days when I can go out for the btter part of the day. Fort example, this week I have sailed the last two afternoon/evenings and expect to be on the boat this weekend as well. (I'll be at the Annapolis Boat Show on Sunday.)

Edited by - OLarryR on 10/07/2011 04:22:49

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2011 : 20:24:41

Larry, thanks for the invitation! I'll be there at the end of October, too late to impose on your hospitality, but it is genuinely appreciated!

We moved the boat today from the seller's friend's backyard over to Dillon's Creek Marina. In the process, we motored a good bit of the way (our boys were with us and we got a later start than we wanted), but we did sail for about an hour or so. It was a beautiful day, and with the help of my wife and my dad, I think I got a better feel for the way the boat behaves, and was essentially single-handing for a fair bit of the time we were under sail. I have to say, those of you who use the standard horn cleats are MUCH better sailers than me (not really surprising!). Those things were SO frustrating! I'm not QUITE ready to fun out for cam cleats yet, but my wife said "yeah, those really made it easy" when I mentioned the use of the cams versus the horns. So, it sounds like I may already have implicit approval for that change.

I also noticed that the guys who sailed her before me had some stuff rigged funny (some of which I fixed, and some I'll need to research). There are blocks on the spreaders whose purpose I can't divine. So I'm off to search for answers to some of these things! Oh, but I do have to say that the stupid wire on the main halyard is REALLY annoying! I think I need new clips for the main, because it doesn't really slide that well (I'll try the dry lube first).

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3441 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2011 : 20:48:11

There are blocks on the spreaders

One possibility is that they use the blocks to raise a flag. I have a block on one spreader and a line leading down for hoisting a flag.

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JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/07/2011 : 20:53:12

That's an interesting possibility. They have one on each side; just seemed odd, but then what do I know? LOL

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2011 : 04:39:53

You need to get chapmans and read the section on flag etiquette. But thats a whole 'nother thread.

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2011 : 04:44:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 You need to get chapmans and read the section on flag etiquette. But thats a whole 'nother thread.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
West Marine has Chapmans on sale at the Annapolis Boat Show, in case anyone is looking to buy it. I don't remember the price, but boat show prices on stuff like that are generally very good.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3441 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2011 : 07:35:19

I should have mentioned that the line leading down from the spreader block, the line is cleated onto a small cleat that is directly attached to the standing rigging below the spreader.

The flag was attached to the line and hoisted. WM sells quick mount/dismount spring loaded clips for attaching and unattaching the flag so it can be done fairly easily and quickly.

I should mention that I use to hoist the flag frequently, however, I guess I got out of the habit since I have not done so for perhaps a month. I just do not always think of it these days. Maybe now that I have mentioned it, it will be on mind and I will start doing it again. Thanks for the posting - It reminded me !

Edited by - OLarryR on 10/08/2011 07:38:49

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2011 : 12:46:31

Flag halyards tell me a sailor cares, cares about etiquette, cares about participating, cares about supporting events, and probably cared about the boat; I would be glad to see those blocks on the spreaders.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2011 : 18:53:55

Larry, howis your block attached to the spreader? I'd like to add those to my boat but don't know what size blocks or how to attach.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3441 Posts

Response Posted - 10/08/2011 : 21:29:19

Gary,

I do not recall exactly how it is attached nor the size of the block. I expect to be down on the boat this Monday. I'll have to get a good look at it then and get back with the info.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2011 : 09:30:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 I'd like to add those to my boat but don't know what size blocks or how to attach.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I'd be leery of drilling any holes in the spreaders... One way I've seen it done is simply strapping the two sides of an eye-strap to the spreader with rigging tape or some such thing--maybe even heavy-duty nylon wire-ties (AKA handcuffs).

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2011 : 10:20:51

I am at the boat now, mine are screwed in about halfway out on the spreaders. I will try to get a picture and post it later.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2011 : 16:08:19

Ok, pic is uploaded. Sorry, I was on a moving deck while zoomed in as far as I could on my phone. Hope this helps!

EDIT to fix the typing and the link. Sorry, I tried to do it all from my phone.

Edited by - JimGo on 10/09/2011 18:57:17

JimGo
Admiral

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USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 10/09/2011 : 18:58:09

LOL...looking at that picture, I'm not sure that it WILL help! Anyway, it's a small block which is attached to the spreader with screws.

Dave, I actually think your idea is better, from an engineering perspective. Heck, you might even be able to use pipe clamps to hang the cleat from the spreader. Simple, easy, secure, and no holes in the spreader.

Edited by - JimGo on 10/09/2011 18:59:46

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