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Safest MOB Prcocedure

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2011 : 07:58:43

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 Sten, I really think that in the scenario you describe (me and six non-sailing passengers under sail), my instructions would be:

1. Throw all of these cushions in my direction
2. Turn into the wind or just let go of everything so the boat stops.
3. Push this button (VHF mike, already on 16) and call for help--then release it and listen. Push again to answer. (Don't worry about protocol.)

If I'm conscious, I'll work my way back to the boat. If I'm not, there's nothing they're going to be able to do except maybe run me over--somebody with a low-freeboard powerboat needs to get there as soon as possible.

I really don't see non-sailors in an emergency situation performing any MOB maneuver without a significant risk of ending up further away and out of control.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Agreed depending on the potential capabilities of the crew. All situations are different. On a sailboat, one should always have one other person steer for awhile and do a quick run thru of tactics. Hypothermia sets in in 4-5 minutes in some waters, so quick recovery could be essential. I did learn that this method works. That's all...

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2011 : 10:23:10

Rule of threes (I'm sure I've posted it here before)

You have:
3 weeks to find food
3 Days to find drinking water
3 hours to find shelter
3 minutes in cold water or to find oxygen

Priorities in a survival situation are dictated by the rule of threes. On a boat this means your MOB drill has to be able to be completed in under 2 minutes or you are in serious trouble. You have to be a damned good skipper to pull it off. Alternatively, if you wear a lifejacket that last rule is likely at least tripled, probably more as there is some extra insulation in the jacket and the victim is less likely to drown.

Edited by - Prospector on 09/27/2011 10:23:29

Ryan L
Navigator

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USA
230 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2011 : 11:46:00

Unless I'm missing something what you describe here is not really a Williamson turn. The final backed jib and turn to weather being key differentiating factors. In fact, the only difference between what you describe and a quick-stop is the initial turn although I'm surprised to hear you advocate a full powered run/reach towards the MOB as the first move. I'm not sure what you mean by "speed is your friend" but I hope you mean speed of execution rather than boat speed... :) Good luck getting an experienced crew to be able to turn into irons and/or to do so in time to slow the boat close to the MOB. The fully powered crash jibe will not help the situation. Finally, if the victim is even able to reach and grab a passing lifesling at 5+ knots they're gonna get their arms ripped off, especially with the drag of clothes and PFD. (Try it sometime, we do similar stuff regularly in swiftwater and PWC rescue training.)

As for what to tell inexperienced charter guests I say something like "Throw stuff overboard, push the tiller towards the sail (or turn the boat away from the sail if using a wheel), drive past the MOB, then turn towards them and release the lines." That seems to work well for most boats small enough to run without crew. I also tell them that if they forget all else, in pretty much any "emergency" situation, just release the lines, stay low, and press the red button. Guess which scenario I think they're most likely to remember?

For what it's worth, when I was doing the coursework for masters license I remember them making a very clear differentiation regarding W turn for power versus sail, especially in rough seas and/or stronger winds. The key factor being control of boat speed and position relative to MOB.

Please do not take any part of my reply as lack of respect. I think these discussions can be beneficial for us all. If I fell overboard I'd be stoked to have you at the helm to retrieve me. As long as you had an ice pack ready for my shoulders after. (JUST KIDDING!!) :)

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 
Nobody in that scenario will remember the quick stop nor the 8 method. Teach them to circle around and head straight for you and then turn at the last minute leaving you to leeward and toss the lifesling. Speed is your friend. The Williamson in this context is only practical if you have a lifesling, but I did try it with a horseshoe buoy and was able to retrieve it with a boat hook twice in a little over 2 minutes.

The diagram does not show the final part of the maneuver which is to turn when the MOB is withing reach. But let's run thru what would actually happen in the aforementioned scenario. You are close hauled or on a beam reach when the MOB incident happens. The wind is on your port side and you fall off and begin to execute the Williamson. You swing back around and the jib backwinds while you bear down on the MOB using the reciprical course heading. Boat speed is good and the MOB is getting closer. Lifesling is made ready and at the appropriate time the vessel turns to starboard as the lifesling is tossed to the MOB. Vessel is now in the irons and MOB is on the port side or slightly aft. It's a good idea to release the sheets if practical just before making the turn to starboard, but don't worry about it. As long as the MOB can grab the lifesling and you get the vessel as close as possible to the MOB without hitting the MOB, life is good.

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2011 : 11:58:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ryan L If I fell overboard I'd be stoked to have you at the helm to retrieve me. As long as you had an ice pack ready for my shoulders after. (JUST KIDDING!!) :)
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Ha! Any vessel doing the williamson will have to turn one way or the other to pick up the MOB, but maybe my instructor invented something. On my vessel, doing the 8 took more than 3-4 minutes to execute and sometimes missed and had to circle around again. I cut that time almost in half with the Big W. Maintaining vessel speed is important, just drifting will not help anything.

All of that been said, we had an icepack standing by for the horseshoe buoy, fortunately we did not hit it so it was not needed.

But I hear you - A. I'd want me at the helm too, and B. if I was in the water, I'll take the bruised sholder

sten

Edited by - on

Ryan L
Navigator

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USA
230 Posts

Response Posted - 09/27/2011 : 12:02:46

I think the area where you and I agree the most is that the figure-8 method is best left to experienced crews and to times when it's not you or I in the water... ;)

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Ryan L If I fell overboard I'd be stoked to have you at the helm to retrieve me. As long as you had an ice pack ready for my shoulders after. (JUST KIDDING!!) :)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ha! Any vessel doing the williamson will have to turn one way or the other to pick up the MOB, but maybe my instructor invented something. On my vessel, doing the 8 took more than 3-4 minutes to execute and sometimes missed and had to circle around again. I cut that time almost in half with the Big W. Maintaining vessel speed is important, just drifting will not help anything.

All of that been said, we had an icepack standing by for the horseshoe buoy, fortunately we did not hit it so it was not needed.

But I hear you - A. I'd want me at the helm too, and B. if I was in the water, I'll take the bruised sholder

sten
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