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Safest MOB Prcocedure

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greatescape
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/14/2011 : 12:27:42

Not sure of best procedure for man overboard with this scenario:
My '82 is under furing jib and mainsail, I go overboard. (we have a pullstart 4 stroke 8hp which my wife can't start (let's assume it's not on). Appreciate some guidance , but I guess she would do her best to : 1- toss life ring/cushions 2- head into wind, release mainsheet 3- release jibsheets,bring in furling system, either bring down main sail or sail near me , then head into wind.
Scott

Scott

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 13:18:23

Take the coastal cruising course, on your own boat with a willing instructor.

We do a triangle course to get back to the victim with the boat head to wind. Upwind, we tack through 130° to a reach for 30 seconds, then gybe to come across to teh victim, then come upwind with the jib released and feathering the main. If you are travelling over 0.5 kts when you reach the swimmer, you are moving too fast to do the rescue.

We have practiced with a number of floaty things, but never with a real-live person. I should do that some time.

Edited by - on

rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 14:58:38

Skipper overboard is what I focus on and doesn't require touching the sheets for inexperienced crew. I tell to head to wind to scrub speed, watch the boom and point at me when she inevitably comes around, pass me and do another head to wind until I get a line or swim ladder. Hopefully the stress of flapping sails, swinging booms and bursting blocks won't deter my rescue. Downwind is your problem without an electric start OB.
Crew overboard I'd do beautifully with all my lessons and wouldn't require replacing blown components as likely in my skipper-overboard scenario. While motoring out I make sure to cut the engine to show how far these will make way without power and also assign designated watch person.

Edited by - on

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 15:12:43

Don't call me to task on this, but I read once that the simplest thing to do (especially for inexperienced crew) is to just put the helm hard alee and tack the boat without relasing the sheets.This will stop the boat and put it into an (almost)hove-to situation. If done quickly after the MOB it should result in keeping the boat near the person in the water with out running him (or her) over. Never tried it but sounds like it would be the easiest thing for a panicky novice to do.

Edited by - Renzo on 09/14/2011 15:14:05

Novi
1st Mate

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Canada
59 Posts

Response Posted - 09/14/2011 : 16:33:41

I was on an offshore course this spring where we practised the "heave to" rescue.

The instructor felt it was an effective way to get things under control and minimize panic for an inexperienced crew while buying time to organize a rescue. We practised a number of retrieval methods with varying success but we always started by heaving to.

Edited by - Novi on 09/14/2011 16:47:50

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2011 : 07:47:21

Good topic. Heave to sounds like the way to go. Always keep a life ring or a throw cushion in the cockpit.

Edited by - on

Ryan L
Navigator

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USA
230 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2011 : 11:55:14

In addition to some of the prior suggestions using a lifesling might make it easier to retrieve you.

Edited by - on

JeanAndre
Navigator

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USA
224 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2011 : 16:53:46

Hello Scott,

I am wondering why would you go overboard being the only person who knows how to sail the boat. If you are in a situation where going overboard is a possibility I suggest you rig some jack lines and secure yourself to them.

The best thing would be to take a sailing course with your wife, at least the basic course so you both know how to steer the boat safely or at least drop the sail quickly.

One approach would be to install a Lazy jack on the main and show your wife how to drop the main. Then furl the jib a little (not all the way) so you loose speed but not enough to loose stearageway and tacking and jibing under Jib alone is a lot easier.

Also, wear your PFDs. This way you can wait "comfortably" for the boat to come back.

Another suggestion is for you to get a Ski line and drag it behind the boat so if by any chance you end up overboard you just swim for the line. Just remember to get the line back onboard before you start your motor.

If you are interested I can get you a contact for a good ASA instructor in NY.

Cheers

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9076 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2011 : 19:31:40

I agree with Jean Andre and others, except you say your wife can't start your outboard (or she thinks she can't). If your strategy is for her to get the boat stopped (heading up and rolling/dropping sails), then you need an outboard she can start. If you're overboard because you were clocked by the boom, or you were conked on the way down, for example, you might not swimming back to the boat.

I recommend either (1) both of you knowing and practicing upwind and downwind MOB drills, which means both of you can handle the boat alone, or (2) buying a new engine with a push-button starter, and practicing with that. If your strategy involves going to power, it must include getting the sails furled in a hurry. A sail that suddenly fills is going to ruin everything for a novice sailor.

Also remember, no matter what the strategy, it must be performed while keeping an uninterrupted eye on the MOB. When the boat travels as little as 20 yards from a head among the waves, that becomes a critical factor. That head is much harder to see than the cushion you use for MOB drills... which is one reason the procedure should start with getting cushions or other highly visible flotation into the water within the first 2-3 seconds. That alone takes practice, and should be part of every drill.

And it explains why I am aghast at marine stores that sell blue, green, and "camo" Type 4 throwable cushions. They should be the most visible color you can possibly tolerate in your cockpit. Mine are yellow--and no, they don't "go with the boat."

My point is, MOB is something that shouldn't be improvised whenever it happens... It should be planned and practiced, and practiced,... and then practiced at an unexpected time.

1. Immediately litter the water with throwables.
2. Maintain an unbroken watch on the victim.
3. Execute the plan to return and recover--whatever that plan is.

That assumes a step 0: Have and practice your plans.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 09/15/2011 19:57:18

Ryan L
Navigator

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USA
230 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2011 : 01:18:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JeanAndre
 Hello Scott,
One approach would be to install a Lazy jack on the main and show your wife how to drop the main. Then furl the jib a little (not all the way) so you loose speed but not enough to loose stearageway and tacking and jibing under Jib alone is a lot easier.

Another suggestion is for you to get a Ski line and drag it behind the boat so if by any chance you end up overboard you just swim for the line. Just remember to get the line back onboard before you start your motor.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

With respect I think this is poor advice. By the time the wife has the main down and jib partially furled the MOB will be long gone (or at least difficult to locate). Plus I strongly disagree that it's easier to change tack under jib alone. Taking/jibing under jib requires handling sheets while doing the same under main only requires ducking. Unless you mean for the crew to allow the jib to back? When it comes to having a novice handle a stressful situation simpler is usually better.

I also disagree with having a line drag behind the boat unless it's thrown out when the person goes overboard. It's off topic but there are a number of good reasons why this is a bad idea. As an alternative, that achieves the same result, there are throw ropes available that can be used to reach the "victim", or at least to quickly create a temporary line being dragged, if that's the method you choose to use. Here are some examples: http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product_list.asp?deptid=961

I won't criticize your answer without offering an alternative. It's been my experience as a keelboat instructor (for over a decade) that the technique most students seem to do well with involve variations on the "quick stop" theme. Basically all they need to do is tack the boat (thus backing the jib), then complete the "circle" to pick up the MOB in irons. An alternate version has the crew blow the jib sheets (let it luff), bring the main to midline (to be slow downwind) then complete the circle finishing in irons.

As I mentioned in a prior post I still think the Lifesling is the easiest of all. Here's a video demonstrating it's use: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stqveg0TYvA&feature=related

I agree with everyone recommending that you and your wife take a course. With a good instructor you will be amazed at how much you improve in a short period of time. Many people don't know what they don't know (if you know what I mean?) Another cliche is to say they many people know just enough to be dangerous... As for courses, my certifications are US Sailing but ASA is excellent too. If you're only concerned about MOB you might consider taking a private lesson with that sole focus?

If you're not interested in a full course, but tend to do well learning from books then figuring it out on your own, the US Sailing keelboat series are high quality, affordable, and offer easy to follow instruction. http://store.ussailing.org/browse.cfm/books-manuals/2,72.html

Another surprisingly good book is: http://www.amazon.com/Sailing-Dummies-JJ-Isler/dp/076455039X

If you plan to teach her techniques involving starting the motor make sure she is fairly competent in operating it, especially in stopping or finding neutral. Otherwise you should also teach her techniques to stop severe bleeding from propeller trauma... If there's enough wind to separate the MOB from the boat then in most cases it will be much faster to pick you up under sail alone. Sort of like dropping the sails, by the time she has the motor lowered, started, etc you may be long gone. I think pickups under motor make more sense on larger boats with inboards but on little boats like ours, with outboard motors, you may want to consider risk/benefit before using the motor.

I hope this info is helpful. I'm not trying to tell anyone "I'm right and you're wrong." This post just explains my opinion on the matter. Take 'em or leave 'em. I'm not the one watching the boat sail away... :)

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2011 : 06:24:33

Crankin the Johnson 6hp Sailmaster

Make sure the gas tank air vent is open.
Raise the engine.
Take her out of gear ( gear shift middle position is neutral, aft is reverse, towards you is forward. )
Turn the throttle all the way clockwise, and then back a little counter clockwise.
Pull the cord slowly and make sure it is free, if the throttle is set too high, it will click, clunk and the cord will not come out.

<< If she is cold >>

Step on the bulb 10 times till it hardens up.
Pull the choke out.
Turn the mixture dial to 6:00.

Pull the cord Pull the cord quick, Pull the cord, let go and pull the choke out.

Slowly Drop the engine into the water.

Run some and put in the choke and turn up the throttle slowly.
Turn down the throttle and put her in gear and turn up the throttle.

Turn the mixture to 9:00

< < If she is warm >>

turn the mixture to 6:00
Pull the cord Pull the cord Pull the cord.

If she does not crank, pull the choke.
If she does not crank pump the bulb.

Pull the cord

Slowly Drop her into the water

Give her gas.. turn down the throttle and put her in gear and give her gas…

Turn the mixture to 9:00

Don’t go too fast she will burn up. Don’t go to slow she will die.
If you pull the cord too far out you can break the cord.
If you go in reverse, go very slow, and you might have to hold her down.

( The grlfrnd can now crank the engine, and it thrills her that it starts. )

Edited by - on

Boomeroo
Navigator

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Australia
129 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2011 : 06:44:27

MOB .. Lots of good advise . My wife is aware of what to do.. But as she will often have a rest down below or as I often do I sail/motor single handed .
I have fallen overboard a few times in the last 40 years and always surface in time to catch the side of the boat and climb up the stern .
My set up is 1. Wear a inflatable jacket/ harness and clip on as often as reasonable
2. I have a rope overboard at all times which leads over the stern rail under the auto pilot and onto the helm . If I ever miss the stern I will get the rope which disengages the helm and pulls it over slowing the boat ( likely throwing the wife out of the bunk if present )If motoring I have a cord to the kill switch from the tiller
Lots of situations arise and you need to do a risk review of your specifics ( wind ,waves , daylight , other boats & drinks etc) and set up in accord .
Don't rely on someone who has been "trained " but is not experienced . "Crisis ..panic .. wrong action" .

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2011 : 08:19:09

Good post Ryan.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3442 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2011 : 09:09:41

Do you have your ladder velcroed to the top rail ? Some of us have attached a cam cleat part way down the ladder with a line forming a loop about 6" or so above the water surface so that IF overboard and IF by yourself and IF close to the boat, you can lower the ladder and climb aboard. A lot of IFs but my ladder was velcroed to the top rail and there was no way to lower it if trying to get onboard. I sail probably 90% by myself.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2011 : 09:48:35

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 Do you have your ladder velcroed to the top rail ? Some of us have attached a cam cleat part way down the ladder with a line forming a loop about 6" or so above the water surface so that IF overboard and IF by yourself and IF close to the boat, you can lower the ladder and climb aboard. A lot of IFs but my ladder was velcroed to the top rail and there was no way to lower it if trying to get onboard. I sail probably 90% by myself.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have a weak bungee half way up.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2011 : 10:10:48

Ryan's got it right. The quik stop IS heaving to.

We've used it dozens of times to get hats, lifejackets and other stuff that's blow or fallen off the boat.

No people. They belong on board at all times. Easier to do when cruising, harder to do when racing.

Be careful out there.

Edited by - on

rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2011 : 12:35:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PCP777
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 Do you have your ladder velcroed to the top rail ? Some of us have attached a cam cleat part way down the ladder with a line forming a loop about 6" or so above the water surface so that IF overboard and IF by yourself and IF close to the boat, you can lower the ladder and climb aboard. A lot of IFs but my ladder was velcroed to the top rail and there was no way to lower it if trying to get onboard. I sail probably 90% by myself.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have a weak bungee half way up.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have the ladder rail cleat clamp loose enough to roll over. I better try it, it may just roll over to a vertical horn.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2011 : 13:05:20

Several good posts. My suggestion is this: Until your wife is comfortable with MOB procedures, and can actually get you back into the boat, wear a pfd at all times and keep yourself tethered to the boat, either with the mainsheet or a jackline. you might also want to trail a long line behind the boat - but be aware that even 50 ft. of line will pass you by surprisingly fast as mhas been mentioned on a previous thread.

Edited by - on

rrick
Captain

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USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 09/17/2011 : 22:59:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rrick
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PCP777
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OLarryR
 Do you have your ladder velcroed to the top rail ? Some of us have attached a cam cleat part way down the ladder with a line forming a loop about 6" or so above the water surface so that IF overboard and IF by yourself and IF close to the boat, you can lower the ladder and climb aboard. A lot of IFs but my ladder was velcroed to the top rail and there was no way to lower it if trying to get onboard. I sail probably 90% by myself.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have a weak bungee half way up.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have the ladder rail cleat clamp loose enough to roll over. I better try it, it may just roll over to a vertical horn.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ok, I tried it. The somewhat oval shaped stern rail prevented the clamp cleat from turning to a release position.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3442 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2011 : 06:27:06

I have to take better and more up to date photos of my ladder release. The old life ring in the photo is no longer on the boat. I replaced it with a lifesling which is much easier to understand and deploy by a guest. The lifesling is not blocking the ladder. I installed the lifesling on the side rail adjacent to the where the ladder is located. The first photo shows the line loop that goes down to about 6" above the water surface. The 2nd photo tries to show the cam cleat mounting but it is still hard to make it out. Basically have a small piece of starboard monted to a rail mount. The cam cleat is then mounted to the starboard.

Edited by - OLarryR on 09/18/2011 06:28:07

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2011 : 10:00:08

Lots of great advice shared here. I too have found the heave-to approach to work best for me. I tell folks there are three things to do if someone (especially me!) goes overboard:
1. Yell Man overboard and put the helm down hard over and hold it there. This will stop the boat quickly, make a LOT of noise, and potentially have the boom thrashing around till she finishes heaving to.
2. If there are two people still on the boat, have one person dedicated to watching the person in the water, and be pointing with their whole arm and finger at the person non-stop (sounds silly, but when you look away, even for an instant, you can lose them in the waves. Keeping your arm aimed there greatly reduces that from happening......
3. As soon as possible get the life ring in the water towards the person in the water, and then get the MOB ladder deployed. Do not do this immeadiately unless you can accurately throw it to them. You want to keep the boat close to them initially, especially if the folks on the boat are inexperienced.

I make sure I know if 1st timers can swim or not. If they cannot swim, I ask they wear one of the "suspender" inflatable vests we carry. Lots less uncomfortable and less "intimidating" than other types of vests. Non-swimmers get the auto-inflatinging one I have. In rough weather, I ask that everyone wears one, but at a minimum they wear something if they are on deck in a blow.

A MOB drill occasionally is a real eye opener for crews also..... For me too when I once said "Man-overboard", and released the tiller and stood up in the aft end of the cockpit. The crew simply grabbed the tiller and settled the boat back onto course and yelled to the empty water aft of us that they would pick me up on the way back later that afternoon!!!!! :-(

Cheers!

Chuck

Edited by - on

TCurran
Admiral

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USA
588 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2011 : 10:25:39

Chuck...suprised they didn't throw you over to make the drill more realistic

Edited by - on

cshaw
Captain

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USA
460 Posts

Response Posted - 09/18/2011 : 12:54:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by TCurran
 Chuck...suprised they didn't throw you over to make the drill more realistic

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Tom, Don't put ideas in their heads!!! They are devious enough as it is!!!!! <grin>

-c-

Edited by - on

greatescape
1st Mate

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USA
33 Posts

Response Posted - 09/21/2011 : 11:47:35

Thanks for your help everyone.

Edited by - on

JeanAndre
Navigator

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USA
224 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2011 : 11:41:33

This is a great thread, It shows how much people are caring about their MOBs. There is a hole lot of ways to retrieve a MOB, specially on the adds on the Sailing Mags.
So re-reading the thread here is what I came with:

1- Triangle course
2- Head to wind
3- Heaving to (Quick Stop)
4- Life ring / Life Sling
5- Jib alone
6- Ski Line / Trailing line
7- Easy access to swim ladder
8- Figure 8 (2 tacks)

The water here in St. Louis is getting colder and I am not in Brazil any more. But I got pretty excited to do a whole day of MOB practice, So as soon as the sun shines, the summer gets back and the water gets nice again I will try them all and see what I can get out of them.

But so far the best advice ever: Practice, practice, practice!

Edited by - on

Ryan L
Navigator

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USA
230 Posts

Response Posted - 09/22/2011 : 12:51:34

Quick Stop is different from heaving to although the first step is similar to the first step in heaving to in that the jib is backed via a tack. It is an extremely effective and easy to learn method. Have fun practicing!

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JeanAndre
 This is a great thread, It shows how much people are caring about their MOBs. There is a hole lot of ways to retrieve a MOB, specially on the adds on the Sailing Mags.
So re-reading the thread here is what I came with:

1- Triangle course
2- Head to wind
3- Heaving to (Quick Stop)
4- Life ring / Life Sling
5- Jib alone
6- Ski Line / Trailing line
7- Easy access to swim ladder
8- Figure 8 (2 tacks)

The water here in St. Louis is getting colder and I am not in Brazil any more. But I got pretty excited to do a whole day of MOB practice, So as soon as the sun shines, the summer gets back and the water gets nice again I will try them all and see what I can get out of them.

But so far the best advice ever: Practice, practice, practice!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

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