Association Forum - Main Sail Rip and Bow Rail Repair

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Main Sail Rip and Bow Rail Repair

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Page: of 2

JimGo
Admiral

Member Avatar

USA
962 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/02/2011 : 15:54:59

Hi! I'm looking at a used, 25' Catalina swing keel. She's older, and certainly shows her age, but all-in-all, she's not a bad boat. She survived Irene unscathed, which is at least a good start! The two issues I've seen with her are that there's a tear in the main (though the current owner said he may have a spare) and the stainless rail at the bow has been torn out at one of the four mounting brackets. The owner said it hit the dock a while ago, before he put in spring lines. The fiberglass is torn, as is the plywood under it. Does anyone have any idea what it would cost me to get these two things repaired?

Any feedback is appreciated.

- Jim
Formerly of 1984 C25 named Dragon Wing

NOTE: In my case, PLEASE don't confuse stars/number of posts with actual knowledge. On any topic.

Edited by - JimGo on 09/02/2011 15:56:54

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2011 : 16:57:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 . . . the stainless rail at the bow has been torn out at one of the four mounting brackets . . . The fiberglass is torn, as is the plywood under it. Does anyone have any idea what it would cost me to get these two things repaired?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Are you saying just the screw holes are torn?

Are you close enough to get pix?

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2011 : 17:09:46

Here's a link to the picture:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimgoepel/6107724020/

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2011 : 17:20:35

Also, in case it is helpful, she's serial number 782, model C-25.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2011 : 17:35:18

Run, run, run away from this boat. If the pulpit pulled out a while ago the deck coring has been exposed and if not already rotting it will soon. This is a high stress area and you don't want to mess around with it.

The fact the owner has not repaired this area "for a while" makes me wonder what other areas of maintenance he/she has neglected to do.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2011 : 17:42:46

Thanks Gary, I was afraid you'd say something like that! It's a shame, because the boat is actually in decent (not great, but decent) shape.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2011 : 18:34:17

Judging from that photo, it looks like the pulpit was torn UP from the deck. That sounds like an interesting story to hear. Usually stanchions get laid over by what they hit or are hit with. I'm hardly an expert so take this with a grain of salt.

Unless you're really good at structural fiberglass work, I'd walk away from this one. Or have it surveyed and see what they have to say. I suspect it'll be a few hundred down the tubes for the inspection.

At a bare minimum, get & read a copy of Don Casey's "Inspecting the aging sailboat" before you make the purchase.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2011 : 18:41:02

Thanks for the reply, David. By the way, I'm a fellow pen turner, though I haven't done it in a year or two.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2011 : 19:13:36

Thanks for the quick replies, everyone. Do you think I could reinforce that area of the bow with a 3/8" stainless steel plate (i.e., a nice, triangular section) and then patch the fiberglass? Of course, if the wood inside is rotting, that would be a bigger problem.

And yes, I am generally inclined to heed the advice and walk away. Just thought I'd bounce the idea off of everyone.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

Members Avatar

844 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2011 : 19:42:20

That'd would be like putting a band-aid on a broken leg. NOT a good idea.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2011 : 21:30:18

I wouldn't necessasarily abandon the boat if it's really cheap. It is something that should be evaluated professionally and the rest of the boat needs to be evaluated carefully, but that is certainly repairable damage, even if part of the core needs to be replaced.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 09/02/2011 : 21:40:42

It's pretty cheap. I had hoped to get a rough order of magnitude estimate here (and other forums I've pinged) - $100, $1000, $3,000, etc. so I could get a better feel for whether it's worth it. So far, it sounds like I'll be pumping a decent chunk of change into her before I would be able to sail her in the local waters, and that makes her less desirable.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2011 : 01:40:46

There are thousands of C25's and other boats to choose from. Why start with one that needs a lot of work?

Personally I would always worry about that area of the boat which would reduce the enjoyment level of the boat (always a cloud of doubt over the strength of the repair).

I'm probably different than a lot of people but I buy a boat to enjoy, not work on or worry about all the time.

Edited by - on

rrick
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
261 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2011 : 01:53:04

If you really love her you'll be putting on an upgraded stem fitting where you can knock two birds out with a single backing plate. The upgraded stem from CD also is backed on the hull with an included 1/4" aluminum plate. Here is what an undamaged 1978 looks like

Edited by - rrick on 09/03/2011 03:00:59

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 09/03/2011 : 06:07:19

The damage is far from catastrophic. Involved, yes - overwhleming, no. Would certainly give you leverage for driving down the price.

An upgraded stemhead fitting would be en excellent modification to make during this repair.

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1108

Are you familiar with West System?

http://www.westsystem.com/ss/

If you snoop around here you will find articles on several types of fiberglass boat repair.

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

Members Avatar

Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2011 : 12:13:16

Not that bad. Repair is simple but time consuming.
If its still the original gelcoat, its possible to fix it by gelcoat repair kits OR fix the glass and the paint the complete V-area with non-skid paint so It will looks natual

Get more ideas from my repair http://www.kruska.cz/C25_High_Anxiety/Anchor_locker_repair/

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2402 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2011 : 12:52:48

I would not buy the boat.
If the boat is under $2000 then it is OK, sorta. If they are asking more than that then there is no point when there are so many great cheap boats out there. It is a very early boat and later boats have a lot of upgrades. Personally I liked '82 and newer because of the fuel locker redesign.

Edited by - pastmember on 09/04/2011 12:58:25

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

Members Avatar

USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2011 : 21:43:58

I agree with Frank. $2K would be a marginal value, 1500 would be ok if you enjoy the work. I might offer 1000 and see where it went. If you don't consider working part of the fun, then anything is to much. There are decent boats available for 4K, good boats for 6K and very nice boats beyond that.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 09/04/2011 : 21:54:43

You guys are making this VERY difficult! LOL.

I am handy, but have never attempted fiberglass work. The boat is being offered at $1500, that's why I was wondering about the repair cost, both as a DIY and having it professionally repaired. I like the idea of adding the reinforcement that was mentioned above.

She needs a good cleaning and new cushions, new sheets, and may need the main replaced. The jib is in decent shape, but is dirty as heck. The cabin needs some TLC, too. I am a woodworker, so the cabin could be fun. And the idea of fixing the bow doesn't scare me, as long as the structural issues aren't going to be a problem. That's why I was thinking of the stainless steel backer plate I mentioned above, trying to distribute some of the forces over a larger surface area. I just don't want the bow to fall off while I am out in some "good" winds! :)

Edited by - on

kentwm
Navigator

Members Avatar

101 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2011 : 04:54:51

Jim,

About a year ago, my friend, who I share the boat, with ran into the dock and it ripped the forestay out and put a hole about 4 inches long by 2 inches wide where the bow stem fitting was ripped free. So the damage was much worse than the boat you are looking at.

To fix it I did:
I purchased the upgraded stem fitting from Catalina direct... this puts the force on the bow instead of the deck. An upgrade that makes the whole thing several times stronger since the original stem fitting attached to the deck with a single screw in front and 4 screws into the deck. The new fitting has the 4 deck screws but has 3 screws that go down the bow of the boat with the bottom two attaching to the bow on the hull instead of the deck.

first, I did new fiberglass and epoxy work to close the hole. Cleaned out all the loose, old, or damaged deck from inside the anchor well. The was some minor rot I cleaned out also. I then took marine plywood, fiber glassed it and added an epoxy paste (1/4 inch) with hardner to the top of the plywood and installed this plywood triangle underneath the deck. This added about an inch of marine plywood, fiberglass and harden epoxy to the underside of the deck between the anchor well hatch and the bow.

Once everything was good and dry and everything was sealed real good. I drilled new wholes and installed the new stem fitting. I did not put all 3 bow screws in, I left the screw at the top front that goes into the deck off since I did not want any pressure on this point. The two lower screws go into the bow and have a back plate in the anchor well.

The new bow work is significantly stronger with the new stem fitting and almost all of the pressure is now on the hull instead of the deck. Plus with the stem fitting wrapping around the bow, additional strength is gained from the shape of the stem fitting over the original hardware.

The total cost for the repair was $175 for the stem fitting, I already had epoxy, hardner, silica filler, and marine plywood.

With the new stem fitting this is a fairly easy and inexpensive repair. The ripped main is a lot more costly to replace.

If you were anywhere near Houston, I'd have you come down and look at my repair to see how I did it.

Edited by - on

Happy D
Admiral

Members Avatar

921 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2011 : 06:06:35

It's not that dificult of a repair. It's just a pain working upside down in the anchor locker. I replaced the core under the deck right there working upside down using a mirror. It's a little tough but it can be done.
I would not even bat an eye at that repair.
Get a few books on fiberglass repair and read. You'll never get good at fiberglass repair if you don't try.
the best thing about fiberglass is it can be repaired forever.
I upgraded my stem fitting for under $50.00.
http://members.csinet.net/dhapp/stem/stem.html

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

3476 Posts

Response Posted - 09/05/2011 : 08:02:44

I'm with D. If you're gonna own a fiberglass boat, ya just as well learn how to work on one. I don't think they are that hard, and in fact I find the work kinda fun. ( OK it is relative )

Sure beats tryin to carve wood...

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2011 : 05:56:32

I forgot to mention that the technical people at West System are extremely knowledgable, helpful. I believe they've made one of their handbooks available in a pdf format that you can download for free.

If you are handy, then working with fiberglass is very straight forward. Your mentioning of spreading the weight above says a lot!

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2011 : 06:54:57

As to the upgraded stem fitting, the previous owner of my boat did a real nice job of upgrading the original stem fitting by sistering a stainless steel strap (3/16"?) to the existing stem fitting. I imagine the strap cost under twenty bucks.

Edited by - on

JimGo
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
962 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2011 : 08:44:46

Thanks guys. Kent and Tomas, your posts are very encouraging. Tomas, I looked at your blog and thought "is that all there is to it?". It really doesn't seem that involved. Time consuming, but not involved. The biggest problem would be access to the boat during weather that I'd like. The boat isn't on a trailer, and getting her from the shore to my home (about 2 hours away) would be very expensive (comapred to what I'd be investing in the boat). But you guys are making that boat very tempting!

So, any idea what the repairs to the main would cost? Is that a better choice than finding a "used" main?

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 09/06/2011 : 09:19:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimGo
 So, any idea what the repairs to the main would cost? Is that a better choice than finding a "used" main?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">How big is the tear?

Edited by - on

Page: of 2

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.