Association Forum

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Ooops!

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

michaelj
Navigator

Member Avatar

132 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/02/2011 : 15:15:53

My boat did not have a boomvang and after posting a question about boomvangs on the forum I decided to install one. All went well and it looked great. That is, it looked great until I tried to raise the poptop! So maybe THAT'S why the PO didn't have a boomvang installed. Fortunately, just loosening the sheets on it allows the poptop to be raised. I think that this is just another example of why you should sit and think for about half an hour before you do anything to your boat!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9075 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2011 : 15:26:16

You did the right thing--it's a small price to pay for a useful control. Most of us recommend against sailing with the pop-top up, so you aren't missing anything. Another option is to use a snap-shackle on one end (a good one). (Be glad you didn't impulsively buy a rigid vang!)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/02/2011 15:27:31

Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2011 : 15:36:17

I use the snap shackle option on the mast base end. Works great.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3439 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2011 : 16:11:02

No big deal and it's probably common. I also installed a boom vang and I also loosen the line so I can raise the pop top.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2011 : 16:33:33

Use the snap shackle and the boom vang can act like a preventer while running downwind.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2011 : 18:33:27

Yeah, use a snap shackle at the mast end. Also, I flipped my vang so that it adjusts at the boom end. Makes things easier.

Edited by - dlucier on 02/02/2011 18:34:39

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9075 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2011 : 19:05:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 Use the snap shackle and the boom vang can act like a preventer while running downwind.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...except that a vang is particularly valuable as a vang when running downwind--especially on a C-25 with its end-boom sheeting. (Besides, for a couple of reasons I won't argue here, I'm not a fan of preventers, unless they're rigged to be released very quickly from the cockpit.)

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/02/2011 19:07:41

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9075 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2011 : 19:10:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Yeah, use a snap shackle at the mast end. Also, I flipped my vang so that it adjusts at the boom end. Makes things easier.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...unless you lead it back to a clutch on the cabin-top. Then you can adjust it regardless of where the boom happens to be.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/02/2011 19:11:03

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2011 : 19:29:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Yeah, use a snap shackle at the mast end. Also, I flipped my vang so that it adjusts at the boom end. Makes things easier.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...unless you lead it back to a clutch on the cabin-top. Then you can adjust it regardless of where the boom happens to be.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Tried that, but it didn't quite work out for me.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2011 : 19:53:36

Dave, enlighten me. Why the hate for preventers? I am a big fan of them. I find that pulling teh boom forward and down, tying it off to the bow pulpit can give me a heck of a boost downwind in light air.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
9075 Posts

Response Posted - 02/02/2011 : 20:27:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Dave, enlighten me. Why the hate for preventers?... I find that pulling teh boom forward and down, tying it off to the bow pulpit can give me a heck of a boost downwind in light air.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">First, I didn't race my C-25. Second, I generally thought of preventers as being safety measures for heavier air--not as a shaping device for light air. You're using it more like a "twing". My problem with preventers is the possibility of moderate-to-strong wind backwinding the main and creating an emergency. By definition, a preventer is for sailing in a situation where the sail might be backwinded--to "prevent" a violent jibe. I just avoid sailing that way, and if I suspect something, I jibe the main in advance and/or sail higher on a broad reach.

A vang will hold the boom down. If you're using a preventer to do it, you're adding strain to the preventer that could make releasing it all the harder (speaking of relatively strong wind). If you can't release it immediately, the boat could scream to a stop, loose all steerage, and broach. At that point, the strain on the preventer will likely make it impossible to release. To me, it just ain't natural.

If I wanted to do long dead-downwind runs without fear of violent, surprise jibes, I'd get a boom-brake. But again, I wasn't thinking about racing in light air with crew on the foredeck. I daysailed and cruised with passengers in the cockpit.

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 02/02/2011 20:29:31

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2011 : 06:05:42

I agree with Dave regarding the use of preventers. I don't like sailing in strong, shifty winds with a sail "strapped down" in a way that can't be instantly released if necessary to keep the boat in control. When you're sailing in big winds, you always want to be able to quickly release your sail controls, in case the boat becomes overpowered. For example, when sailing to windward in big winds, you always keep the mainsheet in your hand, so that, if the boat begins to heel excessively, you can dump the mainsheet quickly. The principle is the same with a preventer, except it is attached well forward of the cockpit, where you can't release it quickly or easily, and the boat might broach before you can release the preventer.

You have a number of alternatives to using a preventer in big winds. On a long downwind run, you can bring the mainsail down and run downwind on the jib alone. That eliminates any need for a preventer. If you have a good helmsman, another alternative is to use a boom brake, and for crew to keep their heads down at all times while the helmsman minds the boat's angle to the wind closely so the boat doesn't gybe. Another alternative is to find a slightly different course, such as alternate broad reaches, so that you can sail downwind without risk of gybing. I don't say never use a preventer. I would be more inclined to use a preventer on a long run than a short one. My belief is that, because you can't release it quickly if necessary, it should be a last resort, used only when all alternatives are unsatisfactory. I don't like sailing a boat that I can't control at all times.

I have no reservations about using a preventer in light to moderate winds, to keep the boom from swinging back and forth when the wind isn't strong enough to hold it over on the leeward side. In that case, you don't need a preventer with mechanical advantage, so I like to rig a simple preventer with a piece of line attached approximately mid-boom and tied to a shroud with a slip knot, and with the tail of the line led to the cockpit. If you want to gybe, all you need do is tug on the line, and the boom will be free to swing across.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 02/03/2011 06:09:43

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2011 : 06:25:26

That makes three of us... I was delivering a Pacific Seacraft 37 to Maine with the owner. We were running downwind in heavy seas and he decided to show me how he could rig a preventer to port and run a staysail to starboard. I didn't object, but then we almost? ran over a shoal and we had to turn to port quickly. (The owner plotted the course - @##!&&^^%$&!!!!! - ultimately my fault anyway) The main backwinded and the boat heeled hard, I thought she'd roll. I was praying a line would snap. Boom brakes/preventers run from the cockpit - ok in heavy winds. Preventers on a C25 in heavy winds sounds like a very bad idea.

sten - the other curmudgeon

Edited by - on

Scooter
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2011 : 06:50:22

FWIW,

I also use a snap shackle at the mast end of my boom Vang. I also use it as a "preventer" downwind. But... I only use it in light to very moderate winds and, if I even "think" about danger, I release it. You have to use some common sense but in light winds it sure does help.

I would never use it in heavy winds. Too much can go wrong too fast. I should note that I don't race. Racing may be a totally different set of issues.

The snap shackle just gives so many options.

1. You can release the BV when the pop-top is up.
2. Preventer in light downwind (and spacious) runs.
3. You can release and tuck the boom vang under the sail cover if you want.

As usual, probably no wrong answer? Whatever you feel like...

If I don't say it enough... This is what's so good about this active forum. You hear options and ideas that you can choose to use or not. If your choice doesn't work you can search and find other options that you probably should have used.

2 cents

Edited by - Scooter on 02/03/2011 07:08:00

calden
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
194 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2011 : 07:17:46

Great discussion about vangs and preventers. I am learning lots.

Another point... in anything stronger than light winds dead downwind is not your fastest course. So not only are you potentially courting danger by using a preventer in strong air but you are also not sailing efficiently. For light air cruising it's a lot of fun to wing and wing, and impresses the guests.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2011 : 07:34:37

Perhaps the only time I would use a preventer in big wind would be when racing, with enough skilled crew to tend it, and when maximum speed is essential. When you're shorthanded or not racing, there isn't enough of a reason to use one, and you don't have the necessary crew. One of the alternatives would be a better choice.

Like Calden, I love to sail wing-and-wing. It's the prettiest point of sail, and, in a gust, you really feel the full power of the wind.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 02/03/2011 07:39:17

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2011 : 11:35:11

I have actually toyed with teh idea of attaching a "stanction base sheave" (whatever teh proper name for them is) on either side of the pulpit to run a line from the docking cleat in the cockpit, forward to the bow pulpit, then back to teh boom as a preventer line.

In the case of the main getting backwinded, my preventer does its job, but if I need to release it quick, its easy to undo the cleat. Foredeck could rig the preventer in seconds, and when its time to gybe, it would be quick enough to release the line. pull it up on the foredeck, swing the boom across and rerig on the opposite side.

Since the main is alway on the opposite side to teh genoa, the cleat should always be available. I rarely cross-sheet downwind.

In an unexpected gybe, I have never had concern with broaching. I don't see a need for a preventer in heavy wind since I just adjust my course for the wind. A light hand on the tiller is key in shifty, strong winds. If you try to muscle the boat for the wind, you get in trouble quick. The toughest part in heavy wind that is inconsistent is neutral helm at the top of waves, and then you are best to fall off a little and bring the jib around to try reaching for a bit until either the wind or waves get steadier.

If the wind climbs, and I am caught with a preventer rigged in stronger wind than I want, then its fall off onto a reach, letting the extended main dump wind for a bit. Tie off the tiller, run forward and release the preventer, run back to the cockpit to sheet in the main, then remove the preventer line from the boom.

The only casualty I have suffered while doing this was last season when the whisker pole decided to wrap itself around the forestay while flailing from the end of teh jib. That was... uncomfortable.

Anyone have a whiskerpole they want to trade for a customized version?

Edited by - Prospector on 02/03/2011 12:24:33

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 02/03/2011 : 11:51:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Anyone have a whiskerpole they want to trade for a customized version? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> I have one, but it's resting 30' down, on the bottom of Brookville Lake. It sounds like we have the makings of an even trade!

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.