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The Dreaded Deck Plug

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Initially Posted - 12/27/2010 : 20:41:08

Tonight I dragged Chuck out ot the boat (in the cold and dark) to figger out once'n for all why we have no anchor or steaming light.

Hooked up the continuity tester to the deck plug and had her start flipping switches. Turns out we got no juice to one lead at the deck plug and lotsa juice at the other (3 prong plug) that tells me its time to rewire from the panel to the plug, and to switch over to a 4 prong connector. (Steaming light, anchor light, deck light, Neutral)

Now I know there is no conduit through the deck (a common complaint on here) and the plug is smack in the middle of the boat with no place to hide the wire, but I also know this place is full of clever sorts who come up with lovely solutions that I cannot hope to replicate.

Show me your work so I have a target to aim for.

Right now I envision some kind of a moulding along the bulkhead to ceiling joint and then a straight run back under the pinrail on the port settee.

"Iris"
1984 FK/SR #4040
http://frosthaus.blogspot.com/

Take a minute to register your boat with the association!!
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/owner_questionnaire.htm

Edited by - Prospector on 12/27/2010 20:42:52

panhead1948
Captain

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345 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2010 : 20:57:49

I might be mistaken but one pin is ground. You should have voltage between it and the other two. KJ

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2010 : 21:12:15

Yuppers. The big hole is the ground. Apparently it works, and one of the light's wires is good. The other wire, not so much. To replace one, you gotta drill through the deck. At that point you might as well do the whole Shebang, and call it an opportunity to get a working steaming light.

Once I have the boat rewired, it will be time to pull of the tarp and do the mast.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
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USA
3440 Posts

Response Posted - 12/27/2010 : 22:09:43

My '89 may be laid out different compared to yours but contrary to what I thought, the conduit in the deck was a pull-thru down the mast support column in the main cabin and into the bilge. I found this out "after" I had already re-wired an alternate path...and I will get to that in a bit. How I discovered the conduit could be removed was after I finished rewiring, I was removing some of the old wires and there was a conduit from the switch panel that ran attached to the underside of the bilge cover opening on the port side. That conduit was going up the mast wood support column. I yanked on it and it came loose from the deck connector opening and so I removed it all from the bilge. It is definitely wedged up tight up near the deck connector but was able to be removed. Not sure how easy and probably not easy at all to replace it using the same path.

When I was into the initial rewiring and thought the conduit under the deck plug was basically laminated/sealed into the fiberglas, I sought an alternate conduit routing path. On my '89, it seemed that if I used a super long drill bit shaft (purchased at Home Depot), I could drill a hole angled forward from inside the deck connector access so the hole would pass into the head area just forward of the port side main cabin bulkhead. (From there, I could then run the conduit in the head area but along the bulkhead edge to the rear of the head area thru a hole I drilled in the little shelf back there and then along the port side (hull) thru the main cabin under the seats and eventually to my new switch panel located on front panel below sink.

I drilled the hole thru the deck connector access angled significantly forward and checked where it came out and could not find the opening. It was weird after redrilling same hole and still not spotting where the hole came out inside the cabin. Then I noticed that the thin rubber gasket moulding at the top of the cabin bulkhead in the head area had a small slit in it. Closer inspection revealed that was where the hole punched thru - Great ! I used Anchor Brand 14 gage 5 (or maybe it was 6) wire round mast conduit and routed it from the deck connector to my new BP switch panel. The extra positive lead, I branched that off of the conduit used it for a fan mounted at the top of the wood mast support in the main cabin. My website has some photos of the new switch panel and the fan on the mast support column.

Edited by - OLarryR on 12/27/2010 22:13:50

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2010 : 08:38:31

I agree that the deck plug is the spawn of the devil. I have had the same battle that you describe many times with my mast light connections. However before you rewire the whole boat double (and triple) check the connections at both the deck recepticle and the mast plug. Also take some emery cloth, fine sand paper or bronze wool and clean the plug points and the inside of the recepticle connections. Then spray some electrical contact cleaner in the holes of the deck recepticle and connect the whole thing nice and tight. I did this and my mast lights are finaly working again (He said vigorusly knocking on a pice of teak and making ancient pagan Italian hand gestures to ward off the evil eye) I don't know if it will work in your case but it's worth a try and it's less work than rewiring.But if you are set on going through th etrouble of rewiring you might consider a different type of connection to the mast such as an automotive type plug or other type of positive mechanical connection.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2010 : 08:48:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Renzo
 I agree that the deck plug is the spawn of the devil. I have had the same battle that you describe many times with my mast light connections. However before you rewire the whole boat double (and triple) check the connections at both the deck recepticle and the mast plug. Also take some emery cloth, fine sand paper or bronze wool and clean the plug points and the inside of the recepticle connections. Then spray some electrical contact cleaner in the holes of the deck recepticle and connect the whole thing nice and tight. I did this and my mast lights are finaly working again (He said vigorusly knocking on a pice of teak and making ancient pagan Italian hand gestures to ward off the evil eye) I don't know if it will work in your case but it's worth a try and it's less work than rewiring.But if you are set on going through th etrouble of rewiring you might consider a different type of connection to the mast such as an automotive type plug or other type of positive mechanical connection.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thank you for this advice, I'm having the same problem.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2010 : 09:43:03

Suffered through the deck light socket problems the first three years I had my boat. The previous owner had already run a new cable up through the head area to the same style 4-pin deck connector. I finally removed that connector and routed my mast light cable down through a deck cable-clam connector so the connections could be made inside the cabin and out of the weather. Four years later and I have never had a problem with it since. I opted for standard bullet type connectors for connecting the cable instead of the pricier ganged connectors. If I have to drop the mast I open up the cable-clam connector and pull the cable back up to the deck.

Edited by - Sloop Smitten on 12/28/2010 09:51:30

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2010 : 10:29:30

Look on the port side of the main cabin where the hull and deck meet, may have to remove the teak trim piece. If your 84 boat is like mine, all of the wiring to the mast lights and v-berth/bow runs along there. The mast light wiring turns at the main bulkhead. I pulled the deck fitting, found corrosion and one wire too short to repair, and ended up drilling a new hole through the old one(came through just forward of the bulkhead wall) and ran new wire over to the port side and back through the galley bulkhead, using zip ties to secure it to the old wire. I bought brown surface wire covers at the hardware store that I plan to attach to the main bulkhead to cover up the exposed wiring, just haven't done it yet. I'm pretty sure I replaced just the one bad wire, not all three.

Edited by - dmpilc on 12/28/2010 10:34:36

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2010 : 16:03:02

My compression post is hollow. I'm thinking about running the wire through the port side lockers and up through the compression post.

I also found out that the stiffining mold under the deck on the port side is hollow on my boat. It runs from the back of the electrical panel up to the bulkhead. I might run the wire through there.

Edited by - Happy D on 12/28/2010 17:32:57

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5352 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2010 : 17:35:20

My 2 cents. From the top of the boat, pull off the old deck connector, yank on the cable and it should "unstick" from the space between the cabintop and the head liner. You should be able to get a little slack. If you get enough to strip back, you should be able to remount a new deck connector.

This does not provide the advantage that Joe Wergers pointed out (no electrical connections in the weather), but it is the easiest way to fix the connection.

If you can't loosen the cable, or cannot get enough slack out of the cable, then you're faced with running a new cable. What I'd suggest is use the old cable to pull the new cable through the cabintop into the bilge.

Use lots of silicone spray on the cable jacket as you feed it in, and/or use a cable with a slick jacket. I believe the original wire gauge is #12-4, but you can check it in the manual. (The argument was made elsewhere that the ground lead does not have to return the current of all three power leads at the same time, as you would never use the anchor light, the steaming light and the deck lights at the same time).

Make sure the cable is long enough to reach all the way back to the electrical panel, as you don't want any splices in this line. I'd start with a forty foot cable just to be sure you can make all the ups and downs of the routing back to the panel. Assume 4 ft from the connector to the post, 8 ft down the post to the bilge, 8 ft to the hull-deck joint, 8 ft back to the galley bulkhead and 4 ft to the panel switches.

Good luck with the project -- it's not one I'd envy doing. But if you gotta do it, you gotta do it.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2010 : 18:34:52

Use something like this if you're going to be pulling wire through a tight conduit -->> http://ideal.datacomtools.com/idealcatalog/wire-lubricant.htm

You should be able to get something similar at HD or Lowes.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2010 : 20:37:13

Loads of great info here - anyone have photos of a finished interior after doing teh cable run? What I was hoping for was more along the lines of cosmetics to cover the wire once the deed is done.

Edited by - on

skybird
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2010 : 20:57:13

Skybird is in line for the same thing. Checked the lights last night and i have running lights for night sailing, but nothing up the mast. Haven't had time to diagnose what to fix yet.Grr! Seems to me an automotive flat 4 trailer connection would be just about bulletproof if the wires came up thru one of those deck fittings like Joe showed--where do those come from?

Edited by - on

Prospector
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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 12/28/2010 : 22:19:40

As a freshwater guy, I thought the same thing - but the longest spool of trailer wire I could find is a wee bit short for what we need. Also, patching into the ground halfway up the mast for a steaming light/deck light means compromising the casing - not insurmountable, but worth bearing in mind.

Tonight I went for the near-birth experience and tested the back of the panel from the dumpster side. All switches are good, but I have a bum fuse holder. Fourth fuse down (which is a mast light but I forget which one) is dead. As in the fuseholder itself died. Huh. Not really wanting to replace a panel. Need to think about this one for a bit.

Edited by - Prospector on 12/28/2010 22:21:24

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2010 : 09:19:40

This cable clam can be found at Defender.com. Do a search on "clam". They have several different types and diameters.

Edited by - Sloop Smitten on 12/29/2010 09:20:16

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2010 : 11:05:57

Coupla problems with 4 wire trailer cable:
(1) No jacket. The insulation can be nicked easily if you pull it past sharp turns over fiberglass or metal components.
(2) Insufficient wire gauge. For the length of wire needed, at the current rating for an anchor or steaming light, the wire's small gauge will reduce ampacity and cut voltage to the lights. #10 wire is recommended by Catalina for the ground return, however #12-4 cable will work fine.

Here are the details of the wiring and required wire gauges:

Figure 1. The Electrical Panel Details

Figure 2. The Boat Wiring Details

Note that the Spreader Lights require almost 6 Amps. Don Casey recommends #8 wire on a sixty foot round trip in this case.

Edited by - Voyager on 12/29/2010 11:12:29

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2010 : 19:19:42

Thanks for posting that Bruce.

Its interesting that my boat has this panel: http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19787 which has more switches than the diagram in the owners manual you posted. I wonder if Catalina changed panels at some point.

In any case, I can get a replacement panel for $40 locally and I have a gift card for $25 at the store... I think its time to go shopping. Replace panel, rewire to mast connector, rewire mast.

By spring I'll have new everything.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2010 : 19:32:35

Bruce, maybe I'm missing something. I am searching 10/4 wire and coming up with mostly hits for heavy-duty wire to run generators etc. Here is an example: http://www.homehardware.ca/en/rec/index.htm/_/N-ntjxh/R-I3628946

Is this the gauge you are suggesting? A 3/4" jacket size seems a little excessive.

Edited by - Prospector on 12/29/2010 19:41:10

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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5352 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2010 : 20:47:28

Chris - These diagrams come from the user manual (from 1985 in my case). I believe you can find them for your boat in the documentation section of this web site.
I noticed a few inconsistencies about it.
>> 1st, I have the original 7 switch panel (main, cabin lights, anchor, bow, deck/spreader, running, auxiliary).
>> 2nd, the wire gauge for the spreader lights should be heavier than #14 gauge.

To answer your question, I've seen 4-wire marine cable somewhere. You could also use two twin-wire cables side by side:

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=34917&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=10109&subdeptNum=10605&classNum=10608

-- or --

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=35738&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=10109&subdeptNum=10605&classNum=10608

Check: west marine: home > electrical > electrical wire > duplex wire.

Edited by - on

skybird
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2010 : 21:00:42

if you change to all LED lights on the mast, won't a smaller size wire like the 12-4 be adequate--i still like the trailer connector idea, especially if it was mounted inside and led out to the mast thru the clam fitting like Joe shows. Next question is availability of steaming and deck light in LED?? I think my mast is currently wired with wire from an outdoor extension cord???? My anchor light is integral with a red/green at masthead. I didn't think the red/green was required, but probably not a bad idea for identification. This summer we were anchored and fishing on the pontoon boat and for a while i thought an approaching sailboat with anchor light on was an airplane in the distance with a landing light on!

Edited by - skybird on 12/29/2010 21:05:02

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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3440 Posts

Response Posted - 12/29/2010 : 21:23:09

Richard,

You are right that going with LEDs you can go with thinner wire. The amps are so much lower with say an LED Anchor light that the wire size becomes practically a non-issue. I have an LED Anchor light made by OGM. I had 2 - 2 wire conduits installed in the mast to facilitate hooking up the Steaming/Deck light combo and the LED Anchor light. From the deck connector to the switch panel, I used 14 gage round mast cable sold by http://stores.channeladvisor.com/genuinedealz/store/search.aspx.

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2010 : 11:04:35

Richard,
The flat trailer connector would require a rather large hole in your deck to accommodate. I used staggered connectors to allow one at a time to be pulled through the deck to minimize the size of the hole needed. Kind of like this:

Edited by - Sloop Smitten on 12/30/2010 11:05:38

Happy D
Admiral

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921 Posts

Response Posted - 12/30/2010 : 15:06:27

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Tonight I went for the near-birth experience and tested the back of the panel from the dumpster side. All switches are good, but I have a bum fuse holder. Fourth fuse down (which is a mast light but I forget which one) is dead. As in the fuseholder itself died. Huh. Not really wanting to replace a panel. Need to think about this one for a bit.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Chris, post a picture of the panel and if it matches mine, I'll send you a new fuse assembly. I replaced my panel.
Dan

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 12/31/2010 : 16:31:00

Chris
I checked the routing of my cable from under the deck-hull joint to the cabin-top receptacle. As far as I can tell, it is a three-wire cable (anchor light, bow/steaming light and ground). I saw no indication of a yellow spreader light in the bundle.

I thought the cable went from the hull-deck joint, down into the bilge, then up inside the compression post into the headliner. I fished around in the bilge but it apparently is not routed that way.

Instead, mine appears to pass within the port bulkhead or above it, in a slot along the top of the bulkhead.

My existing cable would be a real trick to replace so perhaps your idea of routing a new cable and hiding it within a trim piece mounted to the top of the inside of the bulkhead would be your best bet.

From there, you might be able to drill a diagonal hole from the cabin-top opening down into the headliner directly adjacent to the bulkhead. If you hit it right, the hole on the inside would be close enough to the bulkhead so that the trim piece would completely cover the hole and the cable.

Or, as I said before, if you could yank out a wee bit more of the existing cable, you might be able to simply replace the current deck connector and waterproof the heck out of it using polysulfide.

Edited by - on

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