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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

Trolling motor on a fixed keel?

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Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/28/2010 : 06:05:11

Here's another take on my engine issue... how fast would a 50# trolling motor move my fixed keel?

Here are some thoughts in favor of it: <ul><li>I only sail at a local lake. It is only a few hundred yards from my slip into the lake proper.</li>
<li>I have hearing damage in my left ear. Novia's outboard is on the port side and is very noisy. As such, I can't hear my crew when I'm facing backwards over the engine (such as backing out of the slip.) </li>
<li>An outboard with a pair of deep cycle high amperage batteries is not that expensive </li></ul>

And thoughts against it:<ul><li>Range. </li>
<li>Power. 50# is less than 1 horsepower. </li>
<li>A fixed keel boat is heavy </li></ul>

I must admit, in my wilder moments last night, I wondered what Novia would look like with two engine mounts!

Has anybody used a trolling motor on their C-25?

Thanks!

Howard Warren
Little Rock, AR
1979 C-25 #1435, "Novia"

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 06:17:49

I know an old navy man who bought an old 23' sloop, mounted a Shakespeare electric trolling motor on it, along with two deep cycle batteries, and sailed the boat down the Bay to Norfolk, using the motor only to get in and out of anchorages and marinas. I watched him leave the marina, and the motor pushed his boat at a perfectly acceptable speed.

I can't speak to how it would perform in all conditions, such as big winds and choppy waves, but I think it would be do-able on a small, sheltered, inland lake.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 09/28/2010 06:18:58

Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 06:22:03

Big wind and choppy waters are big concerns of course. And given my inexperience, having the engine in those conditions is very important.

On the other hand... brainstorming out loud... what about a temporary mounting bracket? I could attach the electric when needed (leaving the slip) and then pull it in once I'm in the lake proper. That leaves me the gas engine as my main means of propulsion, but the nibleness of the electric for getting out of the slip.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 06:42:41

Speaking as one who is also experiencing some slight hearing degradation, if it would help with your hearing problem, do it.

I think the worst case scenario would be if the wind picks up and the motor doesn't have the power to push the boat to windward. In that case, you'll have the gas engine for back-up, and you can always drop the anchor until the wind subsides, or, while you deploy and start the gas engine.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 06:43:30

Brainstorming: Make a new mounting board for your o/b bracket capable of holding both motors, if the bracket will take the extra weight.

There are some interesting electric outboard motors on the net that look like a gas outboard, with ratings similar to a 5 hp gas motor. If you are not concerned about battery weight, maybe that's an option for you. not sure if they are still experimental or available for purchase.

Examples: http://www.psnw.com/~jmrudholm/etekoutboard.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwfoDHWiULU&feature=related

Edited by - dmpilc on 09/28/2010 07:01:01

Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 07:08:15

The new board sounds very tempting, and would be a quick test. I'm assuming the motor mount is the stock mount, I do not see multiple springs or anything like that. According to various websites the existing Mercury 5HP is in the 45 to 55 pound range. So I'm guessing I have about 45 pounds more to play inside.

If I'm keeping both engines, then I can go lower on the trolling motor size. Basically enough thrust to clear the slip (in relative silence while my wife calls out signals) then use the outboard to clear the marina and into the lake.

On the other hand, we could just rig up a line to pull the boat out of the slip manually

This is probably overkill, but my inexperience and nervousness are coming to the forefront.

Edited by - on

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 08:01:30

I am not sure I agree with putting a 4500 lbs boat in a situation where it would be under powered. My feeling is that you don't need the power of the motor until you get into a situation where you need it. We were caught out on the lake the other day when the winds picked up to 20 plus in about a half an hour. Without the power of my Yamaha 10 hp we would have likely ended up on the shore. The only other option would be to drop anchor and hope you can ride it out. I know people tend to think that a small lake means no harsh conditions. I feel I need to be able to handle a situation should it arise.

I also know people on our lake that use nothing more than clothes line to tie their boat up. A few years ago we had the remains of a hurricane come across our lake, many boats had major damage from their boat from scraping and ramming the dock along with other various damages from the high winds.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 08:39:30

One more, with a list of websites NOT authorized by Parsun:

http://www.parsunmarine.com/

Warren, Remember also that you will need sufficient thrust to back out of your slip when a stout wind is trying to push you in the slip.

Edited by - dmpilc on 09/28/2010 08:43:48

Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 08:57:39

Those are interesting specs... 48 volts at 100 amps to generate 3.6 HP. Those numbers really illustrate how much more power comes from a gas engine!

Maybe just rigging a line up and pulling my boat out of the slip by hand is a viable option... or maybe FIXING my cranky old engine to not die in idle is another!

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 09:21:09

Warren,

You have a number of options with motors, with getting underway or docking, and also with signals to and from the crew.

For starters, I always back into my slip. The outboard pushes the boat much better than pulling it against winds or currents.

I often sail singlehanded and find it convenient to untie the last docking line at the bow, with my Honda 9.9 in forward gear at idle and with the tiller tied to curve the boat a bit into the fairway. This allows me to stand at the bow and walk backwards with the boat gliding forward around the upwind piling. By the time I walk back to the cockpit, the boat is already heading out of the slip in the correct direction.

With strong winds I change my strategy and then I am forced to use a line around the last piling to swing the boat upwind as much as possible when entering the fairway. In this case, the outboard's thrust is essential to accelerate and get steerageway as soon as possible to turn into the fairway and away from the boats in the opposite slips.

But if you are aided by your wife as crew with getting underway, you could set up a system of hand signals to replace shouting from the bow to the stern and back. Other sailors on this Forum have done just that. Left, right, stop, go, "all lines clear", or whatever you need could be simple arm gestures. Same signals for docking.

A friend of mine used to have a 1.5 hp electric motor for his dinghy that could push the C-25 up to several knots eventually, but only in calm conditions. He replaced that with a 2.5 hp gas motor that is light and has more power for both the dinghy or the C-25 if needed in an emergency.

So buying and setting up a little, quiet outboard is possible, and an electric trolling motor can push the boat easily in calm conditions. But you could also manage without that expense and trouble, in my opinion, with either hand signals with the crew, or simpler casting off and docking procedures.

You could also buy a new, quiet 4-stroke outboard if money is no object.

Lots of options with a Catalina 25.

Happy sailing!

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 12:23:58

I used a 40# thrust motor to push a previous 21' swing keel that had a very fine entry and displaced about 1500#. It was fine for what I wanted, but it would not push into a breeze much above 12 kts. or a 1' chop. Be careful comparing gas and electric. Horsepower, a measure of work, is a function of torque (a measure of twisting or turing force) x rpm divided by a constant (I think its 750, but I'm not sure); that works well for a gas engine, but an electric motor develops more torque as load increases and rpm's drop. An electric actually develops maximum torque when the load is great enough to stall or stop the motor. Using that, an electric's maximum torque x 0 (rpm) = 0 divided by 750 = 0 horsepower - no movement equals no work. You can't really say that "x" watts equal "y" horsepower. With the same rated horsepower, an electric with an appropriate prop will develop more thrust than a gas engine.

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 12:41:25

Does the typical prevailing wind allow you to sail out or into to your slip? Are there other slips that might be more accessible under sail? Just trying to think of another way you might be able to skin this cat. It's pretty easy for me to sail out by having the right push off on the bow and unrolling the head sail. Coming back in, with the narrowness of the fairway and the wind almost always from the south which is the exact direction I need to get back in, is a high pucker situation trying to beat up the very narrow fairway to get back to my slip but if I moved my boat to the north side of the dock which is closer to the lake proper I could sail in and out easily easily. I was having so many problems with my 9.9 Merc four stroke for a while I almost did just that, but I got that all fixed but I always do have that option to go to the less desirable north far end of the dock if I needed it. I like being near the rest rooms and the shop and all my friends and farther from the highway noise but being able to sail trumps all.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 18:05:25

Could always go this route. Plenty of power and torgue for all conditions!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylFbY3sebB0&feature=related

Edited by - GaryB on 09/28/2010 18:05:44

Slingerland
1st Mate

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USA
96 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 18:39:00

Holy crap! At the end, there are 4 side-by-side on the same boat... that would make a keelboat plane!!!

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 18:44:31

There's 5 - 350HP/ea on the boat in the video!

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OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 09/28/2010 : 18:48:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Steve Milby
 . . . I can't speak to how it would perform in all conditions, such as big winds and choppy waves . . .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">or strong currents

Edited by - on

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