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KiteKraemer
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191 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/09/2010 : 16:36:49

Ok, so I had a few lessons. I hope i learned something.
Sailing at night even in known waters, remember to bring a WORKING spotlight..., stay sober, don't overcrowd the boat, having a good chart would have been useful, or at least a gps would have been good. Apparently I have one on my phone. Anything would have been hard to grab and hold onto. It happened on the columbia river in 30+ winds, beating upwind for about 7 hours friday night getting into our destination from Hood River at Stevenson, WA at 1:30 am. Luckily we made it. Because about 11p, we slammed into a monolithic rock. It was pitch black, no moon, no lights on shore, just sailing into blackness. Luckily, we made it with this miminal damage:

My question is how to "fix" the keel where the outer paint layers have come off. A wee bit of rust is showing so I think it's an iron keel.
not terribly hurt, it's just my fiberglass guy doesn't know what to do.

PS. no water leaked in thru the bow damage, however water did find it's way into this old 1978 boat in every hold! About 8-9 gallons worth. Oh, and the shrouds were loose as a goose. I tightened them up mid sail, but by the end, I was lucky to still have a mast.

Unicorn
78•C25•SK
Hood River, Oregon
http://www.eclipsefilms.com/unicorn.jpg

Edited by - KiteKraemer on 08/09/2010 16:39:00

Leon Sisson
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1893 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2010 : 17:29:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by KiteKraemer
 Ok, so I had a few lessons. I hope i learned something.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Sailing at night, I'd say the three most important safely equipment items are:<ul><li>Good charts,</li><li>GPS or other means of precisely determining position, and</li><li>Detailed local knowledge!</li></ul><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Luckily, we made it with this miminal damage<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">C-25s are some tough boats!<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My question is how to "fix" the keel where the outer paint layers have come off. A wee bit of rust is showing so I think it's an iron keel.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Looks iron. If it's a swing keel, they're all iron. I recommend encapsulating iron keels in a couple layers of fiberglass with epoxy resin after sand blasting, acid etching, and rough fairing. Encapsulating rust doesn't get rid of it.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">PS. no water leaked in thru the bow damage, however water did find it's way into this old 1978 boat in every hold!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">From leaks at deck hardware, ports (windows), and anchor locker, right?
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">...and the shrouds were loose as a goose. I tightened them up mid sail, but by the end, I was lucky to still have a mast.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">If you're gonna thrash a C-25 like that, you might want to do a very thorough rig survey and repair/replace everything the least bit shaky. And by 'thorough', I mean pull all chainplates, inspect every inch of wire with 30x magnification and dye test all swages (or replace with 316 SS wire using swageless terminals and open body turnbuckles with toggles), upgrade to SS spreader brackets, heavy duty stem fitting, split backstay, heavy lower chainplates, etc. In good condition with factory upgrades, C-25 rigs stay up pretty well.

-- Leon Sisson

Edited by - on

jhinton
Navigator

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USA
123 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2010 : 18:04:21

WOW. Pretty lucky to have made it back. Best of luck on the repairs!

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
9075 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2010 : 19:15:08

Yup--that keel is solid cast iron with (it appears) some layers of paint. No obvious damage there. The bow is fixable--solid fiberglass. What I wonder about is that loosening of the rig... It loosened after the impact and again after you tightened it? I'm wondering if something was compromised below the wooden compression post, down in the bilge. Can you see any evidence of the cabin top depressing under the mast? And do you have anything preventing your turnbuckles from turning?

Also, are you saying you're taking on significant water that you hadn't been before this? If so, the keel impact could have caused a problem in the trunk, even if it hasn't damaged the keel itself.

The good news is nobody was hurt!

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/09/2010 19:15:36

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1773 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2010 : 19:24:21

The good news is that everything is fixable. The bad news is that it all takes time and/or money. I agree with the previous comments to also look at the rigging and other structural areas just to make sure that you know all that needs attention. I do not know how expensive repairs are in your neck of the woods or how "handy" you are with fiberglas and keel work -- but you may want to look into how much to replace the boat -- a used hull in better shape that you transfer your gear onto and keep the better stuff from both -- may cost less that doing all the repairs!

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2010 : 21:00:42

The keel appears to have older corrosion; I suspect that than means the paint or barrier coat was damaged in the past. And I can't believe that I don't agree with Leon - encapsulating an iron keel puts you at risk of corrosion that can progress unseen for a long time before the glass bubbles away from the keel; I lean toward barrier coating because it will be apparent much earlier if it is compromised.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 08/09/2010 : 22:30:19

Zink also for the keel after all that work.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2010 : 04:06:28

I'll bet you have a good look at those charts now. 3 lights. 2 charts.

GLAD to hear you and others are OK! You can fix the boat.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2010 : 05:01:40

This may make you feel better:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/92661231

Notice the starboard rubrail also . . . and these guys hadn't even left the dock!

Edited by - OJ on 08/10/2010 05:38:43

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2010 : 05:26:17

There are two kinds of sailors, those that have run aground, and those that are about to.. When you get a chance please tell us the story in full.. sometime this winter, I'd love to hear the holiday version ( the one you tell at Christmas ).

You day you will have to tell us about "Unicorn Rocks"

Anyhoo... back to the repairs.

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9075 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2010 : 06:23:21

From OJ's post...

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">...and these guys hadn't even left the dock! <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It looks to me like they'd just arrived.

"Never approach a dock any faster than you're willing to hit it!"

Edited by - Stinkpotter on 08/10/2010 06:27:56

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2010 : 08:16:42

OJ - great site, lots of interesting pix!

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2010 : 08:22:18

Sorry to hijack but, Waaa... I wanna go to Maine.
OK back to your regular program.

Edited by - on

KiteKraemer
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191 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2010 : 09:14:32

Great feedback Captains! To be precise, In rough waters, unicorn does take on a bit of water through/under the rub-rails. There is no leakage
through any of the deck hardware, chainplates, windows, or even anchor locker. It just gets in. A little through the bow eye, but mainly under and around the rails.
Under light to moderate winds, water isn't streaming over the bow-- and she stays dry. Beating into 20+ winds, I begin to notice it once back at the slip.
I think this would happen to many 1978 boats in these conditions. I need to silicone top and bottoms of the rub rails all the way around the boat.

The loosining of the shrouds was due to not having a locking nut/mechanism on a couple of the shrouds.
2 of the 6 have nuts, 2 have pins, and 2 have no locking and are going to be addressed.

In terms of CHARTS, does anyone have experience with the "Navionics" charts available for the Droid Phones? I just picked up a Sprint EVO, and this
application is available. The USGS charts for the Columbia river aren't the best and would not have helped much.--Really. I did look at them before
leaving the slip. Since the EVO has a GPS and works in conjunction with the "Navionics" charts, I'm curious to know if the charts are better than USGS...

Edited by - on

KiteKraemer
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191 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2010 : 09:21:04

Oh ya, back to the keel.... My Keel trunk has been completely rebuilt, and no damage there. I'll provide a link in a bit so you can Check out the Keel trunk story on my boat.... gotta work for a bit now...

Edited by - on

KiteKraemer
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191 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2010 : 09:26:34

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/tech/tech25/dragn2.asp

Edited by - on

Stinkpotter
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Djibouti
9075 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2010 : 11:19:21

Ah, so you have the SS barrel turnbuckles... Something to lock each turnbuckle is critical to not having our rig come down. Is that standing rigging original to the boat? If so, you're well overdue for a new set. Catalina Direct's sets have open-body bronze turnbuckles--a significant upgrade IMHO. I locked mine with bronze cotter pins that I could then easily bend back around the turnbuckle body to minimize snags.

Edited by - on

OJ
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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 08/10/2010 : 11:38:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 From OJ's post...

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">...and these guys hadn't even left the dock! <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It looks to me like they'd just arrived.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Edited by - on

millermg
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159 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2010 : 07:46:30

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[In terms of CHARTS, does anyone have experience with the "Navionics" charts available for the Droid Phones?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have the Navonics for iPhone and they are great- as long as you're getting a phone signal. Excellent tide and current info as well.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2010 : 08:12:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 This may make you feel better:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/92661231

Notice the starboard rubrail also . . . and these guys hadn't even left the dock!

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Perfect opportunity to install bow thrusters!

Edited by - on

KiteKraemer
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191 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2010 : 15:36:16

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by millermg
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[In terms of CHARTS, does anyone have experience with the "Navionics" charts available for the Droid Phones?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have the Navonics for iPhone and they are great- as long as you're getting a phone signal. Excellent tide and current info as well.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Actually Cell phone service isn't required, its a GPS based application. If GPS is off, you can still view the map, but if you turn on GPS, it will overlay your position exacltly on the chart.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 08/12/2010 : 18:00:48

Commercial charts have many add-ons, but the basic chart is taken directly from the USGS data.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 08/19/2010 : 18:44:34

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stinkpotter
 What I wonder about is that loosening of the rig... It loosened after the impact and again after you tightened it? I'm wondering if something was compromised below the wooden compression post, down in the bilge. Can you see any evidence of the cabin top depressing under the mast? And do you have anything preventing your turnbuckles from turning?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Geez, I leave this place for a couple of weeks and rudders are falling off and all sorts of mayhem all around... WOW!

Basically, I'm gonna say you might have f'ed up the boat. After we were T-boned by an anchored BendyToy in St. Augustine a couple of years back, I noticed some slight creaking underway that did not exist prior to that incident. Boats are in some ways like cars in that the alignment of the vessel is compromised whenever there is a tragic event, hence your turnbuckle issues. I would have a surveyor go over it before doing anything. It might be toast...

sten

Edited by - on

djdurrett
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Response Posted - 08/20/2010 : 07:44:45

BTW, you mentioned working GPS and iPhone apps... MotionX GPS for the iPhone is an INCREDIBLE app.

Edited by - on

KiteKraemer
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191 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2010 : 12:00:36

all fixed. :) Luckily I found the local commodore of the marina, who specializes in boat fixing. Total cost: $240. Whew, it woulda run a LOT more at the boatyard!

Plus the keel is better than it was before

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2010 : 12:10:22

Hey!! That is Fantastic news!

Way to go... now you can spend that other money on more charts/gps/lights/anchor etc.

Glad to you are back up and running.

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