Association Forum - FRP failure on WK

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

FRP failure on WK

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Dan Lamb
1st Mate

Member Avatar

USA
26 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/17/2010 : 07:27:58

When I had the pre-purchase survey completed the surveyor indicated the FRP on the keel had some cracks and the sounding also showed signs of a bonding failure. After I pulled her out of the water last fall it was missing large chunks of the FRP coating. Has anyone had this problem and if so what is the best fix? I'm leaning toward using the West System and adding some filler to transition from the bonded surface to the raw lead surface. Since I will be doing all the work outside in spring temps I'm going to make an enclosure out of clear plastic and apply some heat overnight so it will get a good cure. Any thoughts or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2010 : 18:04:26

Your best adhesion is with unfilled epoxy, so I'd go with that directly against the lead. After a couple coats as bonding layer, you can use the filled stuff to build up the coating thickness, or even better, lay cloth with unfilled epoxy. Do everything wet on wet to ensure good intercoat adhesion, unless heat builds up too much. If that happens you need to let the exotherm pass before doing the next coat.

Edited by - on

Dan Lamb
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2010 : 20:35:01

Thanks for the input Rick. I think you're probably on the money regarding the first few coats being just the epoxy. That makes sense, but I don't think there is any fiberglass cloth on the keel, but it sure would build up the mill thickness pretty quick.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 08:12:41

OK, I'll bit. What's FRP?

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5882 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 08:26:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by John Russell
 OK, I'll bit. What's FRP?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Fiber reinforced plastic (fiberglass)

Edited by - on

Dan Lamb
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 10:31:45

Actually the surveyor misstated the material....sort of. FRP stands for Fiberglass reinforced panel and is made by Marlite for typical commercial applications in bathrooms, kitchens, etc. It is easily cleaned and health departments love the stuff. My keel most likely has several coatings of epoxy or gelcoat possibly with fiberglass fabric wetted in and then is coated with the bottom paint so the surveyor was sort of correct, but in the construction industry FRP isn't epoxy built up on a keel. Last fall when I pulled the boat out of the water I was at the mercy of a friend with his GMC diesel truck and his two kids who weren't real happy to be demasting and and pulling a boat into storage for the winter so I didn't get a good opportunity to really check it out. I think I may contact Catalina and find out how they actually finish the keel on a 250. I'll be pulling it out of the storage building this Sunday so I'll get a much better look at the problem.

Edited by - on

pa-sailor
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
67 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 15:36:16

My WK has some trailer nicks, but I didn't think any big deal since I sail in fresh water lake. Should I be concerned about repairing?

Edited by - on

Dan Lamb
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 16:32:27

The ones I had weren't nicks from hitting anything. They were obviously from a failure in the material, failure of the application, or both. There could have been something on the lead keel that didn't get cleaned off prior to the coating being applied. Coming from Catalina with their excellent QC I was somewhat surprised by the failure. Your situation sounds like all you would have to do is do a little sanding prep and apply some epoxy resin to seal it back up. Mine is a little more severe. I have big areas of lead keel showing and it really needs to be sealed so I don't start getting water penetration under the gelcoat.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2010 : 17:31:32

[url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=11249&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&storeId=11151&storeNum=10104&subdeptNum=10296&classNum=10300"]Marine Tex[/url] is a great product for filling in those little dings.

Edited by - on

Dan Lamb
1st Mate

Members Avatar

USA
26 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2010 : 18:00:33

Thanks to all who commented. I received the repair instructions from Catalina today and here is what they say, and I quote "Using 80 grit sandpaper, grind around the repair to make sure you have eliminated any loose material that may still be there. Still using 80 grit sandpaper, sand entire repair area to assure good bonding. Clean the surface with acetone. Use either an epoxy fairing compound, or mix epoxy and cabosil to make a fairing compound in order to fill in any depressions where the old material released. Sand that epoxy mixture to fair the surface of the keel. Clean the surface with acetone. Apply two coats of epoxy to repair surface. The next day, after the epoxy dries, sand the repair surface and apply bottom paint".

It all sounds pretty basic, but cabosil is foreign to me??

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2010 : 18:27:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dan Lamb
 It all sounds pretty basic, but cabosil is foreign to me??
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Cabosil is fumed silica made by Cabot Corporation. If you're buying 50 pound bags (like Catalina does) you buy one of the grades of Cabosil. If you're buying 50 grams like the rest of us, you buy one of the West System 400-series fillers.

It is possible that Cabosil is available in smaller quantities, but the West System is more readily available for boaters, and selected specifically to use with their epoxy products. But it probably is just repackaged Cabosil.

This link probably has more than you want to know:
http://www.cabot-corp.com/Silicas-And-Aluminas/Downloads/DL200901110522PM972/

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/19/2010 19:23:25

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.