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Bimini install onto perch seats

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TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/25/2010 : 18:23:15

I had a request for a couple of pictures of my new (to me) boat's bimini installation. As you can see in the pictures below, it is attached entirely to the perch seat framework (except for the forward straps, for which I currently use bungee cords). I like this installation method because:
<ul><li>It is all the way back in the stern, providing shade to the helm and perch seats</li><li>It allows full standing headroom</li><li>It does not require any additional penetrations through the fiberglass</li></ul>
Note that there is an Eisenglass window to provide visibility of the masthead windex. Also, it was provided with a boot that bundles the whole thing around the split backstays.

Although I am not sure, I think that the canvas work was done by Lippincott Canvas of Riverside, NJ (http://lipmarcanvas.com/), because this boat was originally sold by Winters Sailing Center, and I believe they use Lippincott for everything they do. I have seen some beautiful canvas work on Winters' boats, so it appears that they do good work.

Note that this installation required some careful bending of the framework near the bottom. Another canvas guy told me that he would not have been able to do that.

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Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
PO of Take Five, 1998 Catalina 250WK #348 (relocated to Baltimore's Inner Harbor)
New owner of 2001 Catalina 34MkII #1535 Breakin' Away (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Edited by - TakeFive on 06/27/2010 06:53:46

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
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Response Posted - 04/25/2010 : 18:51:30

Are you able to sit upright in the catbird seats? It looks like one of the struts would prevent that, but it might just be a camera angle.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/25/2010 : 19:38:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 Are you able to sit upright in the catbird seats? It looks like one of the struts would prevent that, but it might just be a camera angle.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The base of the struts angle out to the side, and in the couple times we've tried them out I have not noticed any obstruction. I'll check that more closely next time I have the top up.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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Response Posted - 04/29/2010 : 11:22:36

Rick, I has something similar. I am able to sit in catbird seats and stand in the cockpit w/o hitting my head. I do have 2 windows to see top of mast. I did move the boom attachment pin about 14" for move coverage. This was the best investment I have done.
Steve

Edited by - piseas on 04/29/2010 11:24:10

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
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Response Posted - 05/01/2010 : 04:03:22

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 I did move the boom attachment pin about 14" for move coverage. This was the best investment I have done.
Steve
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Huh?

Edited by - on

pa-sailor
1st Mate

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USA
67 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2010 : 07:32:12

Rick,
I love your Bimini, best one I have seen for the 250. Thanks for the contact info.
Bob S

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2010 : 18:15:29

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pa-sailor
 Rick,
I love your Bimini, best one I have seen for the 250. Thanks for the contact info.
Bob S
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Bob,

I took down the bimini to patch a couple of small holes today, and noticed this label on the fabric:

The Canvas Store
516-549-0970
265 Broadway
Huntington Station, NY 11746

So apparently Lippincott Canvas (the one in NJ) did not do the bimini on this boat. Either that, or Lippincott did the frame and farmed out the canvas, or maybe Canvas Store made a replacement from the original.

I Googled them and their area code has since changed to 631, and they've changed addresses. Info at http://www.thecanvasstore.com/

Edited by - TakeFive on 05/02/2010 18:19:17

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2010 : 19:19:03

I purchased a bimini from the Canvas Store and it has been great, perfect fit and easy to install...they also offer great support after you purchase...I lost a couple of parts at one point and they provided them again at no cost...

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2010 : 05:08:40

Rick,
I have a C250 with a wheel, and I've been reluctant to add a bimini - till I saw your pics. I'm 6 feet tall, and I hate that cramped, tunnel-vision feeling of sailing beneath a bimini. Yours looks great, though. Thanks for the post. I may re-think this. It'll have to be next year, though. I've already blown my 2010 boat money on a new sail and reef points.

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2010 : 06:12:25

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by windsong
 Rick,
I have a C250 with a wheel, and I've been reluctant to add a bimini - till I saw your pics. I'm 6 feet tall, and I hate that cramped, tunnel-vision feeling of sailing beneath a bimini. Yours looks great, though. Thanks for the post. I may re-think this. It'll have to be next year, though. I've already blown my 2010 boat money on a new sail and reef points.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
FYI, I am about 5'11" and can stand up at the helm. However, the bimini is a bit lower at the forward end, requiring some ducking do get in and out, and also limiting visibility from the helm if you are standing up completely. So far I have dealt with it OK - the benefit of shade overrides the nuisance. There are a couple of zippers in front of the split backstays, and a third one around the stainless frame. When sailing this weekend I briefly considered opening those zippers and rolling back the cloth in front of the backstays. This might eliminate some of the visibility problem with minimal loss of shade. But it wasn't enough of a nuisance to even try it. I'll try next time we go out. Another possibility is looking through the eisenglass window - not sure if I actually did that while sailing.

Also, on Saturday I was having problems with the boom hitting the bimini every time we jibed and came about. I finally figured out that I had inadvertently let out the topping lift a bit, so was able to fix that. I do not know enough yet about sail trim to determine whether the bimini is requiring so much lift on the boom that sail shape is severely compromised. I am sure there is some compromise there, but just have not figured out how much.

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

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Response Posted - 05/03/2010 : 06:29:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 I finally figured out that I had inadvertently let out the topping lift a bit, so was able to fix that.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hm, you should be able to slacken the topping lift to allow your mainsail to lift the boom.
Glad to hear about the headroom.

Edited by - windsong on 05/03/2010 06:30:43

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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2272 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2010 : 07:37:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by windsong
Hm, you should be able to slacken the topping lift to allow your mainsail to lift the boom.
Glad to hear about the headroom.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sounds like previous owners chose headroom at the front of the bimini over sail shape. I'll have to try adjusting the bimini further downward in front to see if I can allow the boom to hang down on the mainsail. I guess a boom vang does not do much good if all it's doing is tensioning the topping lift!

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2010 : 15:20:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 I did move the boom attachment pin about 14" for move coverage. This was the best investment I have done.
Steve
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Huh?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Paul, the mainsheet attachment to the boom as shown in the pic. It was moved forward about a foot so that I could have a longer Bimini for more coverage in the cockpit. You see the rigging in my pic. It goes straight up and down rather that at a 45 degree angle. Its to the left of my BBQ in the pic.
Steve A

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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Response Posted - 05/03/2010 : 15:24:34

There was me trying to figure out how to move the boom up/down the mast

Duh!

paul

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 06/26/2010 : 13:19:02

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 
Sounds like previous owners chose headroom at the front of the bimini over sail shape. I'll have to try adjusting the bimini further downward in front to see if I can allow the boom to hang down on the mainsail. I guess a boom vang does not do much good if all it's doing is tensioning the topping lift!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
UPDATE: I gave up on lowering the bimini below the boom, and instead lowered the rear brackets on the perch seats, moving the front of the bimini up and back. Now the end of the boom swings under the bimini slightly, but everything clears with no problem. This seems the best option right now. Someday I am going to re-tune my rig, and if that causes the mast to be pulled forward at the top (and thereby raise the boom) I may have to re-think this strategy.

Also, the backstays now pass through the top further forward than the cutouts, which I fix by simply undoing the zipper a little further forward.

I think the reason the boom originally passed above the bimini top (see picture above) was because I had never sailed the boat at that point. After sailing it a couple of times I realized that the topping lift was holding the boom too high. After lowering it, the boom came down quite a bit from where it was in the original picture shown above.

Edited by - TakeFive on 06/26/2010 13:30:32

britinusa
Web Editor

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Response Posted - 06/27/2010 : 06:31:32

Glad you brought this backup Rick.

During our trip we wore a hole in the bimini material where it rubs against the boom if the topping lift does not pull the boom above the bimini. We are definitely going to move the frame onto the catbird seats and move the bimini back about an inch too.

Paul

Edited by - on

vholmstrom
1st Mate

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USA
51 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2010 : 07:37:18

http://www.ameriseam.net/home?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage_images.tpl&product_id=2111&category_id=163

I found a rail mount bimini on the web at the site above. What do you guys think?

Vic

Edited by - on

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2010 : 08:06:09

The most expensive Bimini is about $300 less than the Canvas Store.

Edited by - on

Dkn420
Captain

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USA
298 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2010 : 08:08:28

Sorry, I spoke before I clicked, I was referring to the following... http://www.ameriseam.net/home?page=shop.product_details& flypage=flypage_images.tpl& product_id=2038& category_id=168

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 06/27/2010 : 08:08:59

Vic, Good find. I like this design. It's almost identical to a custom job I have a local contractor bidding on now. It's aft of the boom, yet incorporates a cutout for the backstay. I was considering avoiding the backstay cutout by staying aft of the backstay, so this does my design one-better. Of course, this design won't provide as much shade as those that pass beneath the boom, but it will have standing headroom for the helm and the two catbird seats and would probably do 80% of what I need it to do. Personally, I hate biminis, so having one that will provide shade for the helm without making me feel claustrophobic is critical. I also like that it is mounted entirely on the rails and has no strap. Stainless poles, too. Nice.

Edited by - windsong on 06/27/2010 08:18:05

cwstrang
1st Mate

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USA
78 Posts

Response Posted - 07/01/2010 : 11:05:15

Guys: I emailed both Lippincott Marine and the Canvas Store, they both got back with me about the photos from Rick's 98 250WK. The Canvas Store made the bimini and have made at least 50 of that design sent across the country. Lippincott does make a bimini for 250s..."done them a little different. First the fwd bow is straight and attaches to stern rail (like pictured boat) no need to bend (the bend is a flex issue). Also we don't use a strut aft as this prevents folding frame(with bimini top installed) up against the backstay." They are pretty proud of their product and will sell it to you at $1600.00 fob from NJ. Craig

Edited by - on

TakeFive
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 07/01/2010 : 15:03:42

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by cwstrang
 ...Lippincott does make a bimini for 250s..."done them a little different. First the fwd bow is straight and attaches to stern rail (like pictured boat) no need to bend (the bend is a flex issue). Also we don't use a strut aft as this prevents folding frame(with bimini top installed) up against the backstay." They are pretty proud of their product and will sell it to you at $1600.00 fob from NJ. Craig
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I've seen Lippincott's work on boats at Winter's Sailing Center, so I have no quarrel with them. However, I think their comments needs some clarification/rebuttal.

After trying to adjust my bimini height I came to realize that the reason for the bent bows is probably to allow sufficient clearance to attach/detach the lifelines. If you look at my pictures, you will see that a straight bow would interfere with the lifeline attachment. However, I can also visualize that straight bows could attach above the lifeline connections, and thus not interfere. You just need to be sure that the bow is the correct length to stay under the boom (if that's what you prefer) or above/behind the boom (as I now have mine configured).

Their comments about the rear struts are incorrect. They probably do not realize that the bottom of the struts are attached with removable clevis pins, and the tops are freely pivoting. So bunching the bows up around the backstays and inside the boot is easily done by removing the clevis pins. One benefit of the rigid struts is that you do not need to have any forward straps (at least in light winds). I do sometimes put a bungee on one side if the winds are strong, but often I sail with no forward attachments at all - especially now that my boom passes under the top.

Finally, I have a comment about the less expensive stock biminis. As nice as my bimini is, my wife wishes it was longer. She feels it does not extend forward into the cockpit far enough. So there is something to be said for putting it below the boom and extending it as far forward as possible - much like Steve's pictures. This all depends on whether you are willing to give up the headroom that comes with keeping it beneath the boom.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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Response Posted - 07/02/2010 : 16:05:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RhythmDoctor
 
 So there is something to be said for putting it below the boom and extending it as far forward as possible - much like Steve's pictures. This all depends on whether you are willing to give up the headroom that comes with keeping it beneath the boom.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
RD, I dont recall how many inches I raised my boom, 1 or 2 at most, but luckily I am 5'7" short and can stand in cockpit and not hit my head. There is still several inches, 2-3, of clearance. I also moved the mail sheet boom attachment about 14" forward. My bimini is over 6' long.
But before I got my bimini, I got an Anchor Shade, which I still use. There are times that the sun still hits the cockpit so I use it as well for even more coverage. I can only use that shade while in my slip or anchored as it is not really meant for use while sailing. Dont get me wrong, I love the sun, just not on me all day long.
Steve A

Edited by - piseas on 07/02/2010 16:06:44

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