Association Forum - trailer launching a wing keel

Assn Members Area · Join

Home.

Association Forum

Ships Store

Cruising

Racing

Technical Tips

Photo Gallery - New

Boat Search - Updated

Manuals & Brochures

Swap Meet

Links

Officer Flag Line & Staff

Bylaws & Constitution

Members Area

Join the Association

Notice:
The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.

Association Forum

Username:	Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

All Forums

Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 25 Specific Forum

trailer launching a wing keel

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Inspiration
Deckhand

Member Avatar

USA
17 Posts

Initially Posted - 02/15/2010 : 13:32:05

So how difficult is it to launch a wing keel off the trailer? do you or should you have a hitch extension? once you get it off is harder to get back on?

thanks
ted

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2010 : 14:02:23

. . . and while we're on this topic, didn't someone here post a picture where the spare was used on a third axle when launching/retrieving using a strap?

Edited by - OJ on 02/15/2010 14:02:55

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2010 : 14:54:22

We launch with a 5th wheel which is also our spare. The spare is mounted very close to the tow ball end of the trailer. We use a long 1-1/4" Samson braid line to allow the boat & trailer to get deep enough to launch/recover.

My rule of thumb is if the front pads aren't completely submerged, don't even attempt a launch or recovery, or great amusement for the peanut gallery will ensue. Bear in mind that this is on a C-250, not a C-25, so YMMV.

I don't have photos handy, but if you search the archives, you'll find plenty of threads on this, as well as photos.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

Members Avatar

USA
5894 Posts

Response Posted - 02/15/2010 : 18:45:34

The difficulty of launching depends mostly on the ramp. If the ramp is deep enough and drops away steeply enough, and if you have a swing-arm trailer, like an EZ Loader with roller bunks, then launching is relatively easy, but ramps like that aren't everywhere. If the ramp is too shallow or your trailer is the fixed-bunk type, launching and retrieving will be more difficult. I have launched and retrieved my fin keel C25 without even using a tongue extension. My trailer was an EZ Loader with roller bunks. The type of tow vehicle also makes a big difference. A more powerful engine, 4 wheel drive and dual rear wheels also help alot, because they will have better traction on the ramp, and you can back in deeper without "launching" the tow vehicle.

If the water at the ramp is deep enough, the boat floats off the trailer, and launching and retrieving are easy in that situation.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

2402 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 08:23:55

Remember, you can always get one off... but can you get it back on? I would never use a rope to go in unless I knew I could get it back out later. Seems like there would be quite a bit of technique involved in that; bicycle flags, extra padding on trailer parts, etc.

Edited by - on

Scooter
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 08:35:11

FWIW. I have a wing with a bunk trailer. I wish I had held out for rollers. (Another story). I totally agree with the ramp being a significant part of the equation. I have to launch about 17 miles from where I keep the boat because most of the ramps around Eastern NC are in shallow water and built for power fishing boats. They are either not deep enough or not long enough. Many of the ramps have enough water but aren't long enough. One of the things to worry about is running off the end of the ramp and having your axles hanging off the end of the ramp and scratching up your trailer (at the least). This would be worse if trying to retrieve the boat and the tires aren't "on" the ramp.

Another thing I have had trouble with is getting the curved hull over the bunks. Because the bunks are curved to fit the hull the rear end of the bunks is higher than the middle. I have to lower the back end of the bunks to allow the boat to slide off easier. This is also needed when hauling the boat. If I had rollers.....

Along with this my trailer has verticle guides along the wing that use the wing's post to keep the wing centered while hauling. This means that when the boat floats, the top of the wing flanges can get caught on the verticle guides and actually lift the trailer off the ramp. It happened to me once.

What I have to do is:
1. lower the rear bunks
2. Back the trailer into the water "part way" enough to float the boat
3. pull the trailer part way out up the ramp.
4. move the boat farther back away from the trailer.
5. pull the trailer more up the ramp.
6. etc...

I have to do this 2 or more times to make sure the wing doesn't get caught on the centering guides.

I have to repeat this in reverse when hauling. At least I only choose to do this once a year. I launch just before Easter and haul about Thanksgiving. If I did it more then I'm sure it would go better or I could figure out a smoother method.

You just need a good long ramp, deep water, and patience.

Good Luck.

Edited by - on

Scooter
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 08:38:56

Sorry forgot to mention that my trailer does have a toung extention but it only adds about 4 feet. It's better thatn not having one. I don't think I could launch without it. Even with the extention my tires are in the water almost up to the tail pipe.

Again. Once a year so this is a good problem.

Scott

Edited by - on

farrison
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 10:58:55

I have a wing keel with a Trailrite trailer that has roller bunks. As mentioned above, the big issues are the ramp angle and the type of trailer. I use an 18 ft. tow strap to launch. We back the rig down to the waters edge, chock the trailer wheels, unhook the trailer and attach the strap. I don't have a 5th wheel, so we use the trailer jack (it has a wheel) which we lower all the way to prevent bending the jack. We unhook the boat from the trailer and then back the whole trailer into the water. The only visable part of the trailer is the winch on the post. The boat just floats away. It's a three man job, one in the truck, one in the boat and one (usually me, wearing fishing waders) chocking the tires and hooking and unhooking the trailer and strap. We do this twice a year, and so far, have had no problems. A 5th wheel on my trailer would be nice. I don't have keel guides, so I don't have the issues that Scooter mentioned above.

Paul

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 11:16:51

I have the same trailer situation as Scooter but have never, in 20 + years, have I had his launching problems. I often launch the boat by myself, again, withoug issue.

Water depth, length fo the ramp, and planning are critical.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 12:02:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 We launch with a 5th wheel which is also our spare. The spare is mounted very close to the tow ball end of the trailer. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

. . . so the spare is attached to the trailer with a piece of hardware that acts as an axle?

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 13:07:20

Yes: [url="http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=3710&familyName=Trailer+Hub%2FSpare+Tire+Carrier"]Tie Down Marine Spare Tire Carrier.[/url]

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 16:25:08

Thank you David . . . we are planning a trip to Georgian Bay and we're unsure of what kind of ramps we'll encounter. This would give us some piece of mind!

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 17:30:41

Keep in mind how far your trailer will "kneel" when you lower it onto the spare tire. I found out the hard way (read: on the launch ramp) that it wouldn't kneel far enough down to contact the tire, it was still on the trailer jack. We ended up hooking back up, towing it back to the top of the ramp, and repositioning the jack so that it would retract far enough to allow the tire to contact the ground.

Not a particularly fun experience, but fortunately relatively easy to solve.

I recommend a dry run in your driveway before attempting on a ramp. I hadn't even considered it and felt pretty stupid standing there on the ramp trying to figure out what to do next.

Edited by - on

dreddick
Navigator

Members Avatar

117 Posts

Response Posted - 02/16/2010 : 18:45:50

We have never had a problem at any of the ramps we have used. We have bunks and do not have an extension.

Edited by - on

Scooter
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
228 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2010 : 05:55:21

I should have mentioned that the only ramp that is long enough, that I won't run off the end of the ramp, is in deep enough water but it is very steep. It's a relatively new ramp. It even has slits in the ramp to give better traction. The only problem is the ramp drops off quickly and the angle of the tralier is very steep. That, plus the keel guides in between the wing flanges and the hull make it a "bit at a time" process.

I have thought next time I launch I may completely remove the wing guides so it should simply float off the trailer and have nothing to catch on. Maybe shorten the lenght of the keel guides? I'm working on it.

Another issue is that it's a single ramp location and it's very busy. There's not much time to "practice" wihtout getting in the way of the power boaters.

It's kind of funny. Almost every time I launch or haul somebody comes up to me and says they don't think it will work here. Somebody hauls their power boat and just hangs around to watch this idiot try to launch a sail boat. They really want to see me screw up. I could be kind and say they were staying to see if I needed any help.

Just making excuses.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/17/2010 : 07:37:12

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 [quote]Originally posted by delliottg
 . . . it and felt pretty stupid standing there on the ramp trying to figure out what to do next.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I have much expertise in this area! Looks like you can flip the bracket 180 degrees to lower the wheel.

All good points to ponder - thanks!

Edited by - OJ on 02/17/2010 09:36:02

skrenz
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
351 Posts

Response Posted - 02/22/2010 : 10:09:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 Yes: [url="http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=3710&familyName=Trailer+Hub%2FSpare+Tire+Carrier"]Tie Down Marine Spare Tire Carrier.[/url]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't understand. Are you using this as the spare tire carrier or as a fifth wheel to support the tongue during launching?

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2010 : 00:30:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I don't understand. Are you using this as the spare tire carrier or as a fifth wheel to support the tongue during launching?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good question Steve. If you mount the bracket so it would keep the trailer fairly level when you launch with a strap - I think it would interfere with trailering . . .

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

Members Avatar

USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2010 : 00:35:19

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 02/25/2010 : 07:35:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by OJ
 ...If you mount the bracket so it would keep the trailer fairly level when you launch with a strap - I think it would interfere with trailering . . .

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">It looks like it holds the tire about 6" off the ground with the tongue level on the hitch--when the trailer is off the hitch, it'll ride slightly bow-down. On the hitch, I'd guess you'd have to make a very sharp up-hill turn to touch the tire down unless your tow vehicle has a very long overhang.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 02/25/2010 07:36:46

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

Members Avatar

USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 02/26/2010 : 18:35:47

We use the same spare carrier/hub as David. It is not in the way when trailering and supports the trailer - and keeps it going straight - during launching.

We use a heavy-duty strap to launch and have a special "pintle hitch" to secure the strap.

We have a long gentle ramp and use up to 90' of strap. It works fine.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 02/26/2010 19:54:44

EAbrams
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
130 Posts

Response Posted - 03/28/2010 : 08:05:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Scooter
 FWIW. I have a wing with a bunk trailer. I wish I had held out for rollers. (Another story). I totally agree with the ramp being a significant part of the equation. I have to launch about 17 miles from where I keep the boat because most of the ramps around Eastern NC are in shallow water and built for power fishing boats. They are either not deep enough or not long enough. .
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hey Scooter,

Could you point me towards that ramp? I may need it.

Thanks
Ed

Edited by - on

NautiC25
Admiral

Members Avatar

USA
957 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2010 : 06:18:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 Yes: [url="http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=3710&familyName=Trailer+Hub%2FSpare+Tire+Carrier"]Tie Down Marine Spare Tire Carrier.[/url]

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Everytime I find one of these, they are always for 3"-4" frames. I bought a 3x5 frame trailer because I thought that was required for our weight of boat. Anyone know of a carrier that will bolt onto a 3x5 frame?
I may end up buying one of these and chopping/welding it to fit my 5" frame.

Edited by - NautiC25 on 03/29/2010 06:20:34

Unsinkable2
Captain

Members Avatar

USA
273 Posts

Response Posted - 03/29/2010 : 07:55:28

To fit the 3x5 frame, I just drilled two holes for the u-bolt to pass through. Then the bracket fit just fine.

I keep intending to post a complete blog entry on trailer launching, complete with video and photos, but ever time it comes to launch time, I forget.

So here are a couple of posts that partially cover our launching escapades over the last few years. I'm really going to try and remember to get better photos and video this year (launching Friday).

A video of a strap launch:
http://blog.unsinkable2.com/2009/05/splash-2009.html

Story of a challenging launch at low lake levels:
http://blog.unsinkable2.com/2008/07/how-to-trailer-launch-sailboat-in.html

And here are is a haulout posting with some more photos.
http://blog.unsinkable2.com/2009/11/hauling-out-and-winterizing-sailboat.html

I have one question for you all - whats the biggest boat you've ever launched - or you've ever seen trailer launched? Conceptually, if a 30-34' boat had a 3 1/2' or 4' draft, couldn't it be trailer launched? It would weigh more and require a beefier tow vehicle, but other than that, what problems would you run into?

Edited by - on

Topic

New Topic

Topic Locked

Printer Friendly

Jump To:

Association Forum

Notice: The advice given on this site is based upon individual or quoted experience, yours may differ.
The Officers, Staff and members of this site only provide information based upon the concept that anyone utilizing this information does so at their own risk and holds harmless all contributors to this site.