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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Make your hull shine

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jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Initially Posted - 11/23/2009 : 18:39:36

I happened across an amazingly detailed lesson on recovering the shine on aging fiberglass hulls. See the long post by Maine Sailing here:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/42309-ryobi-vs-makita-vs-poliglow-3.html

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2009 : 19:35:55

There are dozens (at least) of threads here on the subject, and range of opinions on conventional wax vs. Poliglow vs. cleaner-restorer-wax (3M) vs. Teflon... Some folks are of the old school--compound, paste wax, and a Makita. Some want to bring back aged gelcoat to a moderate shine that lasts a long time with much less effort--that's Poliglow or Vertglas (roughly the same). From my experience with all of these, folks with relatively new (not oxidized) gelcoat should try the new PTFE (Teflon) finishes from Starbright and West Marine (re-branded Starbright)--they're a breakthrough IMHO. The shine competes with paste wax but lasts longer, and the effort is minimal--rub on, wipe off.

Poliglow for the old... PTFE for the new... The Makita is obsolete!

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/23/2009 19:49:41

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 11/23/2009 : 22:17:15

"Some folks are of the old school--compound, paste wax, and a Makita."

That would be me.
White rubbing compound

applied with a wet wool applicator with the Makita sander/polisher

Then Fleet wax

polished off with the same makita and a dry polisher head.

Please read the properties of PoliGlow and what it does to the surface of the fibre glass..

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2009 : 06:39:32

...and so it begins--the Annual Winter Compound-Wax-Polish-Polymer Showdown thread!

BTW, on my dark green hull, Maine Sailor says I should forget about wax. But of course there aren't many dark Catalinas out there...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/24/2009 06:42:11

frankr
Captain

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256 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2009 : 07:57:56

I use polishing compound, then a cleaner then the Collinite 855 on a 1989 and a 1981 vintage boats. I get may comments about the looks and shine. I also use the Collinite 855 on my cars. It really seems to last a long time.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2009 : 08:20:11

I shifted to StarBrite Marine Polish with PTEF this year. Awesome results with very little work. Wipe on. Wait a few minutes. Wipe off. The hull looks incredible.

Based on my experience with StarBrite products (Marine Polish with PTEF, Hull Cleaner, Deck Cleaner with PTEF, Vinyl Cleaner) I have become a huge StarBrite fan.

Bear in mind that this boat (2000 C250) had its gelcoat in very good condition to begin with. For our 1986 C22 I used PoliGlo and it was a terrific product.

Modern technology works.

Edited by - on

Dave Otey
Navigator

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USA
112 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2009 : 09:53:04

Albeit I am on fresh water, I apply "automotive" wax once per season and the finish still beads up when I haul her out. (April thru Oct) Wax on wax off, no electric buffer. I did need to work out the dead pigment when I bought her 6 years ago but that was it.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2009 : 10:27:23

Compounding and polishing shouldn't be done as part of a yearly maintenance function, but rather to give your boat a fresh start. If your gelcoat is extremely weathered, then compound, polish, and wax. After that, you'll only need to keep wax on the hull, it doesn't need compounding and polishing again unless you start neglecting the wax coat. Remember, compound and polishes are abrasives and you only have so much gelcoat.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1757 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2009 : 11:24:35

I wash throuroughly using a mix of Palmolive Dish soap/water, spot clean any nagging marks with Collinite 920 cleaner then use Collinite 870 Fleetwax. It lasts the entire New England Season and minimally passes the 20 foot rule, at times draws complements. The only nagging issue is the end of season brownish tint that builds near the water line from constant rocking at the mooring in less than clean water.

Edited by - on

Rich P
1st Mate

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USA
77 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2009 : 16:08:38

Muriatic acid will get rid of that brown line very easily. Read the directions and don't use on a trailer.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2009 : 17:54:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dlucier
 Compounding and polishing shouldn't be done as part of a yearly maintenance function, but rather to give your boat a fresh start. If your gelcoat is extremely weathered, then compound, polish, and wax. After that, you'll only need to keep wax on the hull, it doesn't need compounding and polishing again unless you start neglecting the wax coat. Remember, compound and polishes are abrasives and you only have so much gel-coat.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I think this is a good thing to consider.
I trust John McGrain at Oyster Bay Marine Center and he believes in rubbing compound and Fleet wax but...
My boat is approaching 25 years old and the gel-coat is only so thick.
I have been reducing my household cleaners to "green" homemade cleaners relying on baking soda for aggressive cleaning instead of Comet or other abrasives. It might be time to make a homemade "soft-scrub" of baking-soda, liquid soap (environmentally friendly) and water to use instead of rubbing compound.
I do think some abrasive is necessary each year so the hull is clean and a new coat of Fleet Wax (sorry I am a believer) has enough tooth to adhere.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5320 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2009 : 18:43:08

While Muriatic Acid does a great job on the brown stains around waterline, it can be caustic to some metals and other materials. Instead of using Muriatic Acid, a guy a few boats over from me in the boatyard used straight Ketchup on his very dingy hull to remove the marks.

He started out by putting a great gob of ketchup into a paint roller pan, then used a paint roller to apply it evenly to the entire white portion of the hull above waterline.

He let it set for about a 1/2 an hour, then used standard boat soap and a soft bristle brush to scrub it. He did not raise much of a sweat scrubbing either.

He rinsed off the soap and viola!, the hull was sparkling white afterward. I could not believe my eyes at the difference.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/24/2009 : 21:31:48

Next thing you know, Heinz will be selling Marine Scum Remover ($15.95 for a 13 oz. red bottle) through West Marine.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 11/24/2009 21:40:08

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2009 : 06:35:39

I also use Fleetwax on a yearly basis but instead of rubbing compound I strip the old wax off with ammonia water. flush with plenty of clear water then re apply two, new,thin coats of wax with a machine waxer and then buff to a shine. For the brown marks at the water line I use Sno-Bowl toilet cleaner- works quick and easy.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1757 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2009 : 06:55:18

My son has used ketchup (or tomato soup/paste) for years on his Opti and now Laser. It works great but is very messy (albeit fun for the kids). At a mooring I can not use either soup or Muriatic acid (which I use at the end of the season). I do try to wash more frequently and thoroughly at the dock to reduce the scum.

Edited by - on

frankr
Captain

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256 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2009 : 07:53:21

I should have added that the polishing compound is usually only a one time process unless you have some places where the stains are hard to remove - like where the deck drains overside and down the hull. I tried the Teflon products but had a hard time getting a uniform finish.

Edited by - on

bigelowp
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1757 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2009 : 08:10:07

Doing a re-read what a great idea -- never thought about using toilet bowl cleaner for the scum and now that they have the one piece applicator brush it might be possible to do an inwater clean on a calm mid summer morning. Far more "green" and less caustic to use.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2009 : 08:16:40

I've been a toilet bowl cleaner user for the scum line from the very beginning.

Edited by - on

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3411 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2009 : 10:17:02

I have been using Poliglow for years. I used to apply a coat or two every six months but now I do it once a year. I find that if I do a good washing of the boat, there are very few areas that I have to clean further or use the oxidation bottle. Then 1-2 coats are very quick to apply and I am good for another year with just occasional washing to get the rain contamination off.

Poliglow works especially well for me since I keep my boat in the water all year. This minimizes any areas that need any rubbing action such as applying a paste wax or taking it off. Those that have their boat out of the water, then perhaps the other methods work best. I find that I can keep the hull in great shape with a minimum amount of work using the Poliglow by just sitting on the finger slip and applying it as I slide my butt along the planking.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2009 : 14:06:54

I first tackled this issue on a tangerine colored Catalina 22 - looked like tomato soup! As the oxidation was so extreme I chose to use 800 grit wet/dry sandpaper for the first pass. After returning three undersized units I acquired a Milwaukee 11 amp commercial grade polisher. Tried a couple/three different compounds and received the best results with No. 7 Rubbing and Polishing compounds.
Also experimented with waxes and settled on Collinite's Liquid Fleetwax #870 (I tried the paste wax #885 and it was simply too difficult to use.) In addition to a lasting shine, the Fleetwax repelled any lake matter through end of season. After the initial restoration - the hull only required a light polishing and another coat of wax each spring.
The above links and suggestions will have me trying some new products come spring!

Edited by - OJ on 11/25/2009 14:30:48

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 11/25/2009 : 15:47:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bigelowp
 ...never thought about using toilet bowl cleaner for the scum... Far more "green" and less caustic to use.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Read the label before you assume too much.

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2012 : 01:45:18

I think you like these before and after photos so here you have some.
My boat was already painted by PO so at first I tried what the buffing can do on some hidden area.
The problem is that I didn't know what kind of paint I have and I've heard that polyurethane paint is not buff-able. I suppose my paint is acril-urethane or something else, but who knows.

My steps was:
1) wash the hull
2) apply a car polishing compound for older paints (little abrasive compound) and used 600 revs of buffing tool with foam pad.
3) as it contains some oils for fake gloss, I washed the hull again with some dish detergent
4) apply turtle wax with PTFE (teflon) and buffed again with 800 revs by buffing tool with wool pad

Its not glossy as new gelcoat but all black stains and oxidation is gone.
All day task... my hands are longer than monkey's

PS: If you notice the after photo more carefully, you can see I've added new waterline stripe and a anchor roller to the bowsprit.
A few days before I've installed a completely new aluminum rubrail with vinyl insert. Its not Catalina original, I've used local supplies.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2012 : 05:18:03

Wow! Amazing!...That bowsprit/anchor roller looks incredible!

Nice work, Tomas.

Edited by - on

awetmore
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1144 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2012 : 06:25:40

I have a new to me boat with some fairly heavy oxidation. I thought the boat was white, but with buffing compound and light sanding with 600 grit I've learned that it is really a light tan. Right now it is a blotchy mix of both white and tan depending on how heavy the oxidation is in any given place.

Of the 3 basic options (lots of elbow grease and normal wax, less elbow grease and Starbrite PTFE, almost no elbow grease and Poliglow) I like the second option the best. However I don't think that the Starbrite PTFE is going to be able to handle my oxidation. I'm guessing that even if I go all the way to Poliglow that I'll need to do something about the oxidation first.

What is the best way for me to remove the oxidation in a safe way? Is there a way to remove it that doesn't involve buying a $200 buffer? Since I probably won't do traditional wax after that I'm not sure that I need to own one long term. I do have a cheap car buffer and wonder if that is good enough for buffing compound.

I do have hints that the oxidation may have been under control a few years ago. The recent name for the boat was "the great surprise" (I believe that name is 3-4 years old), and I just remove the decals from that name. The gelcoat under the letters looks good, telling me that the gelcoat might have been better cared for back then.

Edited by - on

Tomas Kruska
Admiral

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Czech Republic
522 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2012 : 06:44:40

awetmore: I've seen that some models were really light tan color.

To remove the oxidation, get some very fine rubbing compound and buffer.
I suppose its possible to rent it somewhere.
Btw. 600grit paper is too rough.

Waxing is mostly to make the further cleaning easier than to add some significant shine.

Check this post for more professional hints: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/52772-tips-compound-polish-wax.html

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5882 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2012 : 06:54:49

When I bought my present boat, it was chalky, so I paid the marina to wax it. They used cleaner/wax and a commercial buffer, and it looked much better. Each year since then, I have washed it, and then waxed it with Meguiar's for boats, and buffed it with a Turtle Wax buffer bought at Wal Mart. The Meguiars is easy to apply by hand with a clean, wet cloth, and the buffer can remove it fairly easily. Other waxes are much harder to buff. Each year, the finish has become shinier. At the moment, I don't have a photo on-line that I can show you, but everything around it is reflected in the glossy finish. It takes me two half-days to wax my 35' boat each year.

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