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Dousing main alone in a blow

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windsong
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USA
318 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/15/2009 : 08:14:39

Here's a scenario that bothers me, and I'd love to hear your thoughts. I single-hand most of the time, and I rely on the autopilot to hold the boat head to wind while I take down the mainsail. What if the autopilot fails in say, 15-20 kt winds, with seas 5' - as I saw this weekend on Cape Fear, when the wind piped up unexpectedly? Thankfully the autopilot was functioning, and all went well, but my mind was running scenarios, and I realized that I hadn't really practiced this and didn't really have a plan to practice anyway. Heck, even with the autopilot, getting the main under control in those big waves and wind was hairy. Also, I was thinking that a lazy jack system might make such a scenario more manageable. I realize men have been sailing alone long before the invention of autopilots. I just don't know how!

Anyway, how would you handle this? Would lazy jacks be a good idea for a single-handing ocean sailor like myself?

Michael Hetzer
"Windsong"
2009 Catalina 250 WK HN984
Myrtle Beach, SC

Edited by - windsong on 09/15/2009 08:39:25

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 08:59:14

Well, I'm not an ocean sailor, but in our case, when a storm comes in we have waves with a higher peak than period (ie. a 6 foot wave every 4 feet) short, choppy seas with a short period are brutal to work in.

I never use an autopilot. I don't trust it or like it.

What I usually do is get the engine running just above idle, and hold the nose into the wind. I'll give the mainsheet enough slack that th eboom can swing about a foot either side of centred, but the goal is for the sail not to catch the wind. Since our lines are led to the cockpit via clutches, I scramble to the cabintop and step on the halyard before releasing the clutch. My weight is enough to hold the sail up.

With one foot on the halyard, on the cabintop, I reach for the mast and grab the halyard just above the mast winch.

Now I can ease the sail down pulling down between the hanks to flake it on the boom. (My foot is no longer on halyard)

As it comes down, I control its descent, moving aft along the boom to tie off the sail as it comes down.

I have done this in everything from a light breeze to burying the nose of the boat in breakers. Put together your plan, practice what works for you, and just do it. If things are hairy out there, wear a harness & tether. I don't know what to say beyond that. For me its more difficult to drive the boat with the engine under those conditions than it is to bring the sails down.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 09:25:54

I use the autopilot all the time and love it. I trust it. I also know it can't control the boat in big winds and waves.

What I would do in your scenario is

(1) make sure I have plenty of sea room
(2) get the jib down and tied to the lifelines
(3) turn the boat down wind center the boom and tighten mainsheet
(4) the AP can easily hold a course down wind. If the AP is out, just tie the tiller centered.
(5) everything is easier down wind. The pressure is off the sail and the boat motion is much easier in the seas
(6) have sail ties around your neck or in your teeth
(7) get motor running in idle
(8) hold main halyard in one hand, climb on the coachroof, drop the main a little at a time and tie it up the best you can. No way is it going to be flaked all neat - you can do that later. If you need both hands step on the tail of the halyard.

Edited by - on

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 11:01:51

And just to add a different way: heave to, whether or not you have an autopilot, this makes one unnecessary in case it breaks. Drop the main and go sail downwind on the jib alone. With a jib downhaul (you have one, right?) it's easy to get the jib down on the deck. Simpler and safer this way.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 11:03:33

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 (3) turn the boat down wind center the boom and tighten mainsheet
(4) the AP can easily hold a course down wind. If the AP is out, just tie the tiller centered.
(5) everything is easier down wind. The pressure is off the sail and the boat motion is much easier in the seas<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I must say I've never tried that for dousing the main, but it sounds like it's worth a test run!

The scenario is one of those where I've often left the cover on the main and just pulled out the roller-furled genny. Pull one string and you're sailing, and another string and your not! No luffing, and autopilot optional. Acrobatic performance-junkies would be disappointed, although the performance is not that bad!

Edited by - on

DaveR
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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 12:14:40

I agree, the downwind strategy sounds interesting and will try it. But to this point I steer her in to the wind, set your tiller tamer, bungy or autopilot and pull the mainsheet in as tight as possible, you may need the boom for stability. Unless you really keep your main lugs lubed well your main isn't going fall that rapidly, pretty much let it go from the cockpit or mast. Our mains are small so easily gathered. Have your ties in your pants, one at each hip and one in the center. Make sure you're clipped in so you can't go overboard. Hop on the cabin top and secure the main (I use 3 sail ties), hop back down. From the release of the main to secured and hop back down should be 15 to 20 seconds.

Edited by - DaveR on 09/15/2009 12:15:29

crcalhoon
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USA
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Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 12:16:03

For those of you who race, or who otherwise care about eking out the last 1/10th knot, please forgive me. I once special ordered a mainsail with no headboard, no battens and a hollow leach. It cost me a little speed off the wind, but I could tell hardly any difference on the wind. But I could put it up and take it down on any course, any apparent wind direction and I truly loved that sail and if it weren't for re-sail (sic) potential and the fact that I don't really need a new main for the C25, I would have another one again. Although, come to think of it, the guy who bought that boat never mentioned the sail to me, and I don't remember if I mentioned it to him. I had had it for so long that I had truly forgotten that it was different." You know, I have two mains for the C25, I wonder if I had one cut. . . naaaah

Edited by - on

Derek Crawford
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Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 12:56:00

I realize that I sail on an inland lake, but conditions can get more than alittle hairy at times. We just come head to wind (the main with full battens won't otherwise come down), blow the main halyard and let the sail fall all the way. From the cockpit grab it and put a couple of bungees on it as far as you can reach.
Head back to the slip and flake it at leisure.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 13:10:57

My thinking is that, in a pinch, the first thing you have to do is get and keep the boat under control. I prefer to get the engine running in idle, because, after the sails are down, the boat is dead in the water, and not under control, unless the engine is running. My main halliard is led to the cockpit, and I'll steer the boat to windward, release the halliard and drop the main on deck and into the cockpit. Then I'll reach up and put a couple of sail ties on it from the cockpit, not worrying about flaking the sail or neatness, but just keeping the sail and reefing lines out of my way. Once the sail is down, the crisis is over and I can put the engine in gear and get under way.

I don't think there's one "right" answer here. All the suggestions made above are good ones. The approach that will work best might depend on the specific conditions at the time. Generally, I prefer to not leave the cockpit in severe conditions, if I can avoid it, and if I must, always use a harness and tether.

Lazy jacks gather up the mainsail when it falls. I have a set for my boat, but haven't installed them yet. I've heard pros and cons about them, and have a friend who just installed them on his Cape Dory 33. I want to sail with him and see how they work before I decide whether to install them on my boat. Unless they appear to be a major nuisance, my inclination is to install them.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 14:05:45

in a real blow I always reef while heading downwind with main sheeted in tight.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 15:24:45

Mike, I too do ocean sailing solo. I have AP and lazy jacks. I love both. With lazy jacks there is usually no need to go to coachroof as long as you keep sail slugs lubricated with sailcote. I hope you have additional safety equipment such as PFD and jacklines.

Steve A

Edited by - on

John Russell
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3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 18:52:20

It's unlikely he has a jib downhaul since he has a furler. He can also dump the main without ever leaving the cockpit. He really only needs a tie at the aft end of the lowest batten until he's safely in his slip since its weight tends to pull the sail down off the boom (at least it does on mine). So, he never has to go on deck in crappy weather.

With the scenario you described, I think you needed less sail up. Maybe not dump the main entirely but certainly a reef was in order. I would have partially furled the headsail as well. 5 foot seas is nearly 25% of the water line length of our boats. While they can safely survive them, it certainly is going to be a rough ride. Particularly if the interval is really short. I'd be looking for safe harbor in those conditions. Get broadsided by one with all that canvas up, don't be surprised if your anchor light gets wet.

Edited by - on

JohnP
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Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 19:32:53

Jim's method of dropping the main on a dead run with the mainsheet tightened and with an autopilot is interesting.

But when you are singlehanding without an autopilot or crew, if you drop the main on any course with the mainsheet hauled tight, it can lead to a broach or a runaway boat upon the accidental re-filling of the main when the boat veers off course. That is the reason, of course, for turning the bow into the wind and releasing the mainsheet when hoisting or dropping the main.

All the advice above is great. I can add a few details that I prefer to carry out when dropping the sails without an autopilot.

Equipment check
<ul><li>Lubricate the sail slugs "today" with Sailcote</li>
<li>Bring the jib and main halyards aft to the cockpit to give yourself an easier time handling the sails</li>
<li>Install a jib downhaul that is led to the cockpit</li>
<li>Install a topping lift</li></ul>
Ready to douse
<ul><li>Start the outboard and proceed at slow speed</li>
<li>Get each sail tie ready to use within a second</li>
<li>Prepare the tails of the main and jib halyards by flaking them on the cockpit sole, on the benches, or in the cabin so they will run out freely through your hand</li>
<li>Center the jib by belaying both jib sheets</li></ul>
Douse
<ul><li>Stop sailing and steer the boat into irons</li>
<li>Drop the centered jib on the foredeck - 5 sec (clutch on cabin top)</li>
<li>Drop the main immediately with a fast, controlled release of the halyard - 5 sec (clutch on cabin top)</li>
<li>Center the boom next - 5 sec</li>
<li>Flake the main as fast as you can, tying the clew, then the middle of the foot, by standing in the cockpit - 20 sec to 1 min</li>
<li>If the weather is too rough, leave the last sail tie f0r later</li>
<li>If the weather is moderate or calm, climb on the cabin top and tie the third sail tie towards the tack - 1 min</li>
<li>Tie the jib with a sail tie after tying the main, or else before the main if the jib catches the wind after being dropped - 1 min</li>
<li>With the boat drifting downwind, make everything ship-shape for docking and closing up the boat</li>
<li>Motor to your safe harbor</li></ul>

Remember, always "one hand for the boat" when on deck. Sitting down is safer, too, when at the bow in rough conditions.

Edited by - JohnP on 09/15/2009 19:34:37

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 09/15/2009 : 19:46:54

I'm totally w/ Dave - also lazy jacks and mast gates are the real key for success for me...

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2009 : 05:37:34

Very helpful advice. Thanks, all. I'll order a can of Sailcote from Defender, and I'll try doing more of the work from the cockpit. Looking at all of your various systems, I think my biggest mistake has been spending too much time on the cabin top. On a choppy day, I'm up there hugging the boom like child to his daddy's leg, just trying to keep my feet from going airborne!

Edited by - on

dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2009 : 06:24:07

About 95% of the time, if not more, I douse, flake, and cover my main while sailing under genoa alone (no motor). Most times, I do this while sailing on a close reach, but, depending on the wind and sea conditions, I use this technique on all points of sail, even when close hauled. I find the motion of the boat is more sea-kindly under sail vice firing up the motor, coming head-to-wind, and waves, where the boat, and boom, is bouncing and bobbing around.

To make things easier while lashing the main to the boom, I use the tail of my main halyard, which is about 10 feet long, to quickly spiral wrap the sail along the boom going aft. This takes all of a few seconds to do and I don't have to carry and fumble with individual sail ties. This technique also makes it easier when raising the main, since I can just untie the halyard from the main near the clew then simply take the spiral wraps off while standing in the cockpit.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2009 : 06:52:06

Good advice on the Sailcoat (I used Super Lube--a teflon lube). I added a main dousing line (the "downhaul" is a different line on the C-25)--a very small line tied at the topmost slug (not the head) and led down and aft. It would pull the sail down the last few feet when gravity couldn't overcome the conditions, so I never had to hop up there. I also had some velcro ties that were easy to snap on to keep most of the sail up until we were safely in the slip. Lazy jacks would've been nice...

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 09/16/2009 06:53:36

Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 09/16/2009 : 08:05:40

There are a couple of other tricks to avoid doing a head to wind position with its resultant loud flogging sail noises.

1. Sail close hauled or close reach, drop the traveler and adjust the mainsheet to luff the main, and then drop the main while sailing on jib alone. The main will be luffing because you have the traveler down and have played the mainsheet. Helps to have lazy jacks but after the main's down, just tighten the mainsheet and the boom will come back in.

2. With hank on jibs and a downhaul (I've suggested this many times in the past): To drop the jib, sail on port tack and then heave to, the wind will now be over your starboard bow with the jib back winded. Drop the jib using the downhaul and the jib, because of the way the hanks are set, will drop on the foredeck (not OFF the foredeck) and literally fold itself. The downhaul will hold it down and keeping the starboard jib sheet tight and on the winch will keep the sail on deck without you having to go forward. As soon as the jib is down, you will need to attend to the tiller 'cuz the main's still up and you're not hove to anymore. The advantage to this over head to wind is NO flogging sails!

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
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Response Posted - 01/23/2010 : 18:54:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 Mike, I too do ocean sailing solo. I have AP and lazy jacks. I love both. With lazy jacks there is usually no need to go to coachroof as long as you keep sail slugs lubricated with sailcote. I hope you have additional safety equipment such as PFD and jacklines.

Steve A
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

what are "jacklines"?

I have a 1977 and I never had a mainsail like the one on this boat. Am I doing this correct putting up the main?

My main has a rope sewn into the luff edge which I insert into the slot on the mast. It does not go up or down easily. Is there anything I can do to drop my main faster? I had an incident the first time I took the boat out. I unclipped the clip on the backstay that clips to the back end of the boom before I had the main up and almost went over the side. I know not to do that now.

Still learning.

NCBrew

Edited by - NCBrew on 01/23/2010 19:35:59

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
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Response Posted - 01/23/2010 : 20:15:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My main has a rope sewn into the luff edge which I insert into the slot on the mast.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Really? Was this the system on early production boats? That IS going to make dropping the main more difficult. Can this be converted to slugs? Do you have grommets running up the luff, Maybe the slugs are just missing.

Edited by - islander on 01/23/2010 20:18:41

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2010 : 21:27:18

I had a rope luff and it was almost too much to get up or down with wind over 10. Slugs ever since. I can still lower the main too by outboard running in gear and moving forward to the mast as the boat crosses the eye of the wind. I might have to return two more times before the sail is secured. There are ties in place stationed with a bungee tied the full length of the boom. In a heavy chop there isn't much time that you can leave the helm so I keep the time at the mast short. Since I do have an auto-helm the pressure of time at the mast is reduced but I don't sight see.

I did have the experience of sailing into a summer squall and lowered the 150 and tied down with 2 ribbons. When the gust hit with what was reported a 60mph speed the 150 went right back up and I was on my way again. With the motor running and the main luffing I had to remove the 150 and stuff it into the cabin. It had beat me with any loose edge that was exposed to the wind until it was inside. The main then lowered and tied and I anchored and went inside to rest as I was exhausted.

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2010 : 06:26:24

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My main has a rope sewn into the luff edge which I insert into the slot on the mast.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Really? Was this the system on early production boats? That IS going to make dropping the main more difficult. Can this be converted to slugs? Do you have grommets running up the luff, Maybe the slugs are just missing.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There are no grommets. Does anyone know if I can convert this main to slugs. I don't even know what slugs look like. I guess I could call a local sail maker and ask him. Maybe I need a new main?

This one is 32 years old (I think it is the original)

Can anyone suggest a new main and where to but it.

Thanks
NCBrew

Edited by - on

Even Chance
Captain

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USA
393 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2010 : 06:53:07

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

There are no grommets. Does anyone know if I can convert this main to slugs. I don't even know what slugs look like. I guess I could call a local sail maker and ask him. Maybe I need a new main?

This one is 32 years old (I think it is the original)

Can anyone suggest a new main and where to but it.

Thanks
NCBrew
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There are many, many threads on this site about places to buy new sails: Catalina Direct, Doyle, Quantum, North, Ullman, Rolly Tasker, etc., etc. Do a search and you'll be overwhelmed with suggestions. Everyone has their favorite sailmaker.

Yes, you could have a sailmaker put slugs on your main, but if the main is that old you should consider replacing it anyhow. It's bound to be stretched. I couldn't believe the difference when I replaced my twenty year old sail.

I'm a big fan of supporting local businesses -- do a search for sailmakers in your area. One of the advantages of a local loft is that you can talk to them about what kind of sailing you do, and they'll build a sail to meet your actual needs. There're also there to repair and clean the sail. Be forewarned that your sail will probably be made in China, but to local specs. That's just the way it works these days.

As for the original topic, the one suggestion I didn't see was the adage "the time to shorten sail is when you first think about it."

Edited by - Even Chance on 01/24/2010 06:54:06

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2010 : 07:44:56

Slugs are plastic slides that go into the track on the mast making the sail slide up and down and also allows the sail to flake (fold) on the top of the boom. When I release the main halyard to lower the sail, the sail falls almost all the way down onto the boom. To raise the sail just pull on the main sail halyard and up it goes. I can't imagine having a rope luff. you would have to insert and remove the rope into the mast every time you went sailing. Get a new sail. Here is a photo of my slugs.

Edited by - islander on 01/24/2010 08:30:48

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
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Response Posted - 01/24/2010 : 08:46:16

Clean the sailtrack on the mast. I soak a rag in Sailcote, stuff it into the track and run it the length a few times before raising the mast. Once or twice during the season, I securely tie a rag to a piece of 3/16 line and attach that to the main halyard to use as a downhaul and do the Sailcote thing again. When I release the halyard, my sail falls instantly. I would have slugs added or replace the main (definitely preferable) before this season; this is to big a boat for a bolt rope main.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2010 : 09:50:55

New sail with slugs. It'll change your life. (Your 32-year-old sail isn't worth the conversion expense.)

Edited by - on

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Michael Hetzer"Windsong"2009 Catalina 250 WK HN984Myrtle Beach, SC

Michael Hetzer
"Windsong"
2009 Catalina 250 WK HN984
Myrtle Beach, SC