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Dousing main alone in a blow

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islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2010 : 10:05:02

Referring to the Lazy Jacks portion of this thread, My boat was equipped with them when we got the boat. I thought this was going to be a great addition when lowering the main. My Lazy Jacks had two cheek blocks attached to the sides of the mast above the spreaders. The first few times when I would go to raise the main the headboard would get jammed between the lines coming from these cheek blocks to the boom and the mast. When this would happen I would then have to go to the mast, yank the sail down a little to clear the jam, Then back to the cockpit to continue raising the sail praying it wouldn't re jam. This annoyed me enough to remove the Lazy Jacks. I found the mainsail is not that big on our boats and I can drop the main and put one tie on by standing in the companionway. I guess this is the advantage of being 6'3". Its not neat but that will get done at the dock.

Edited by - islander on 01/24/2010 10:20:19

crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2010 : 14:58:10

I have two mains. One I think is original or pretty old and has slugs. This is my day to day sail. The second was identified to me as a "racing" main. I don't race, but I know a very little bit about sails. the "racing" main has a Cunningham grommet, flattening reef, shelf foot and bolt ropes on luff and foot, it also has a much larger roach.It appears that they did whatever was legal to make a fast sail, probably 15 years ago, although the sail is in very good condition. I don't think they used it much before selling the boat. Raising the main with that bolt rope is a pain in the . . . whatever, but I suppose that a diehard racer would fly it anyway for the extra part of a knot. I have to admit that I enjoy using that sail--on the two occasions on which I have done so.I also sail with a friend on his J-27 which also has a bolt rope on the luff of the main, however, it has a pre-feeder much like the one I used to have with the Tuff LUff and once it is started, it goes up darn near as easily as slugs. I was surprised. Some of the racers will comment better than I.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2010 : 15:25:04

Charles, that racing mainsail sounds like an excellent sail, and would probably be well worth the cost of having slugs installed to make it more user friendly. You'll enjoy learning how and when to use the shelf foot, flattening reef and cunningham, and you'll especially notice the extra speed when you regularly overtake other boats.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 01/24/2010 15:26:02

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2010 : 15:43:15

The boost from the smoother airflow across the mast to the sail doesn't matter to most of us, so I agree with Steve - slug the sail and relax, you'll still be faster than me

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2010 : 16:08:37

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 Slugs are plastic slides that go into the track on the mast making the sail slide up and down and also allows the sail to flake (fold) on the top of the boom. When I release the main halyard to lower the sail, the sail falls almost all the way down onto the boom. To raise the sail just pull on the main sail halyard and up it goes. I can't imagine having a rope luff. you would have to insert and remove the rope into the mast every time you went sailing. Get a new sail. Here is a photo of my slugs.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks;
Great pictures. Now I am debating my purchase of the 1977 Cat 25.

I think I will look around for a newer Catalina.

New main $600, lines to cockpit $712 (from CD).

My significant other will die when I tell her I am thinking of trading for a newer boat.

Anyone want to buy a Swing Keel Catalina 25?

NCBrew

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2010 : 16:33:26

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by NCBrew
Thanks;
Great pictures. Now I am debating my purchase of the 1977 Cat 25.

I think I will look around for a newer Catalina.

New main $600, lines to cockpit $712 (from CD).

My significant other will die when I tell her I am thinking of trading for a newer boat.

Anyone want to buy a Swing Keel Catalina 25?

NCBrew
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Patrick, we purchased a 1989 C25 a couple of months ago. The sails were original and need to be replaced. We have upgrades and/or additions planned for each of the next three years, i.e., most people can't make their boats as they would like in a single season. I believe Don Lucier has a late 70s model and I think it one of the best boats on this forum. We did a lot of upgrades to our 1981 C25 and never even got around to replacing the sails before we sold it in season 5.
Upgrading your boat is liking courting a woman . . . it shouldn't be a marathon - more like a stroll.

Edited by - on

OJ
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4382 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2010 : 16:38:38

This only factor I haven't seen mentioned here is - flogging reduces sail life faster than anything else.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2010 : 17:29:19

Patrick, All is not lost.Like OJ said, Rome wasn't built in a day. The sail although being old looks to be in fair shape, no rips tears etc. Looking through Sailrite.com I came across this video for attaching slugs. I don't know anything about this method but maybe others can chime in here. Slugs and shackles are cheap (slugs 49 cents) I have 12 of them. With this method I would use a few more for strength. If this method of attaching slugs is OK then its an easy fix and you can get a season or two more out of the sail http://silverlight.sailrite.com/narrow-wide-shackles/default.html

Edited by - islander on 01/24/2010 17:38:04

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2010 : 17:34:34

Patrick, I'd suggest you use your current boat for a season and then decide if you want to get a newer one. Use this first year to learn about the boat and use this forum to learn about the various equipment upgrades and differences between Catalina years of production. You may find that you'd want a bigger boat. Who knows?

If you do go for a newer C25 then I would suggest you focus not on things like newer sails but on the upgrades that Catalina made such as fuel and anchor lockers, different interior layouts and the advent of the wing keeled C25.

On the plus side of switching is the fact that the used boat market is very depressed and you could get a very good deal right now.

No matter what you buy that purchase will be just the beginning of writing checks.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 01/24/2010 17:39:16

Unsinkable2
Captain

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USA
273 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2010 : 21:19:06

I bought a 77 catalina a couple years ago. It's been a great boat. Every year I have a list of projects I want to do in the way of upgrades, and have learned lots about sailing from making them. I wondered if a newer boat would actually save me $$ in the long run.

Then my father in law bought a fairly new Hunter 31. It's been interesting to compare notes on his ongoing costs of maintaining and upgrading the boat. They're really no different from mine. It's a new boat, but there's always things a skipper wants/needs to upgrade.

Also, when I look at my expenses for the 77 C25, few of them are related to her age. They're mostly modifications I'm figuring out as I go. We really debated buying a newer C25 when we started out, but I got such a steal on my boat that it just didn't make sense to go buy someone else's modifications.

One Catalina I looked at was completely rigged with every modification you could imagine (watermaker, wind generator, etc.) - the guy was well off and had sailed her for several months on the Sea of Cortez. But I decided against it after talking to some old salts. Their advice was, "Start simple, and do your own modifications to your boat. It's the fastest way to become a knowledgeable sailor."

So, this winter I picked up Don Casey's Sailboat Electronics Simplified book and am going through every electrical system and adding stuff I want. It's been a great winter, I've really learned a lot! I'm also doing a lot of it alongside my kids, so the time/$$ isn't a burden, it's an excuse to spend more time with my teenagers - that's worth a lot. We're also redoing the rigging to run from the cockpit, which has been a lot of fun to figure out.

As Henry David Thoreau said, "The man is richest whose pleasures are cheapest."

(Of course, if I had the money to go buy a newer nicer boat my tune might be totally different, lol)

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2010 : 06:45:15

If your lines run to the cockpit, then Lazy Jacks are essential for single handing. There is an alternative system - and I cant remember what it is called, but lines run thru the sail such that it flakes when it is dropped. I used this system only once on a Pacific Seacraft 37 and it worked quite well, but requires a discussion with your sailmaker, etc...

If your sails are getting hung up, you may not have your Lazy Jacks set up right.

Speaking of sails - after nearly 3 years of cruising aboard our C&C39, our main was pretty shot. Actually, it was pretty shot when we bought the boat but we nursed it along. Anyway, we took the main to get repaired and the lady at the repair loft had me try to rip a small portion of my main. It did!!! The sail was shot, so we took the dimensions - They stretched it to get an exact number, and we dialed up Bacon Sales in Annapolis online. A new main for our boat would be around $4500, but for $500 we bought a good used sail that only needed to be cut slightly shorter and needed the loose foot changed out. For another couple of hundred bucks we had the sail shipped to Florida and they swapped it out and made it fit perfectly. Unless it is an exact match, you will need a sailmaker to tweak the sail, but the cost savings can be pretty substantial.

$700 vs. $4500 and the sail was in great condition! They test them using the pin test method wherein they try to measure the sails condition based on how easy a pin will go thru it... Racers change out sails every or every other season, so the quality of the sail is likely to be better than the standard crap a sailmaker would give you if you just ordered a sail for a C25. Been there, done that.

sten
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39
DPO Zephyr - '82 C25, SR FK #3220
Currently on the hook in West Palm Flooreeda

Edited by - redviking on 01/25/2010 07:07:18

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2010 : 07:34:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking
 ...There is an alternative system - and I cant remember what it is called, but lines run thru the sail such that it flakes when it is dropped...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Dutchman... Pretty expensive.

Edited by - on

islander
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4018 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2010 : 09:03:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking

...There is an alternative system - and I cant remember what it is called, but lines run thru the sail such that it flakes when it is dropped...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dutchman... Pretty expensive<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
And I think Doyle calls it a Stack Pac

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2010 : 12:14:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by islander
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by redviking

...There is an alternative system - and I cant remember what it is called, but lines run thru the sail such that it flakes when it is dropped...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dutchman... Pretty expensive<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
And I think Doyle calls it a Stack Pac
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks Dave - that's it... A stack pac is just an easy way to put the sail cover on after the sail is dropped. Doyles pics show a lazy jack system.

sten

Edited by - on

PCP777
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1225 Posts

Response Posted - 01/25/2010 : 12:24:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

Thanks;
Great pictures. Now I am debating my purchase of the 1977 Cat 25.

I think I will look around for a newer Catalina.

New main $600, lines to cockpit $712 (from CD).

My significant other will die when I tell her I am thinking of trading for a newer boat.

Anyone want to buy a Swing Keel Catalina 25?

NCBrew

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'd hold on to your boat for a season, maybe just do the new main sail first. I'm coming up to owning my boat for a year and I'm just now figuring out how I want it set up etc. I'm about to get a new main as well and I just installed my roller furler system on Friday and I love it. Your goals and views will change as you get more time with your boat and older boats are just fine, as long as they've been well maintained.

Edited by - PCP777 on 01/25/2010 12:28:43

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