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Jacklines

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/02/2009 : 11:53:51

A man with one watch always knows what time it is. A man with 2 is never sure...

Last season I rigged Jacklines on the boat to keep my daughter aboard when she went forward. I thought they worked well. Yesterday an experienced bluewater sailor at my marina pointed out that my lines were incorrectly rigged.

I had attached the lined to the bow cleats with bowlines, then led them aft along the side decks to the cockpit where I tied them off on the stanchions forward of the cockpit.

I agree with him that the stanchion bases probably aren't the most secure spot to tie off the lines. The real puzzler though is the shrouds. This friend suggested that the lines be moved outside the shrouds since crew falling overboard on the foredeck would be dragged, and possibly drowned when the tether reached the shrouds.

If the tether is led outside the shrouds, then the person going forward has to unclip to get around the rigging, which IMHO would defeat the purpose of the tether. Besides, we always clip into the high side, with the idea being that if you go forward, your tether will catch you before you hit the water on the leeward side.

Am I missing something here? I ask because a second person has just brought this up on another forum, and I wanted to see if opinions here matched.

"Iris"
1984 FK/SR #4040
http://frosthaus.blogspot.com/

Take a minute to register your boat with the association!!
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/owner_questionnaire.htm

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 12:01:32

I carry a length of line on my harness which allows me to clip onto the strap and ease myself back to the stern and ladder. My aft-most attachment point is at the coaming just below the primary winch. My forward-most attachment is an eyebolt attached through the deck just behind the anchor locker. The lines are led outside the standing rigging so I can slide back to the coaming, then to the stern. Fortunately I haven't had to use the system and hope I never have to.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 13:19:12

We don't use jacklines, we use Wichard folding padeyes as the tethering point. We have two in the cockpit, one on each coaming, and that affords the crew to get anywhere in the cockpit using a 6' tether.

For going to the foredeck we attach a tether to the base of the mast. If you need to go forward you grab that tether - while still attached to your cockpit tether - and attach your harness to it. Then you unattach your cockpit tether and go forward.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 07/02/2009 13:24:14

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 13:36:28

Chris, let me first say I do not have a jackline system on my boat but I have read up on the subject so feel somewhat qualified to chime in.
First the only thing I question re your set-up is using a bowline on the bow cleat. My understanding is attaching like our dock lines-thru the cleat opening and then around each horn of the cleat.
But re inside or outside, I have also read and seen others all place them inside the rigging. Your point re unclipping is well taken. Plus my understanding is you want the lines to run center-lined of the boat. Isn't the idea to keep one from going in the water the point.
There have been several posts re this subject and one of the ways, best to me, is to use one jackline and attach to the bow cleat and then wrap around the mast several times and install a padeye in the cockpit and attach the end there. The reason I like the mast setup is to keep me in the center of the boat.
I do have a tether that I attach to the harness of my life vest and have enough length once at the mast to reach the bow but even is not feel safe in unclipping at the mast if necessary to go forward. The problem now, of course, is getting to the mast to clip in.
Your post is a good one, for me at least, as I need to install a jackline system since I do sail solo. I do not leave the cockpit now but stuff happens, as they say and I need to be prepared.
Steve A
PS, Randy's use of padeys is a good one and I know he values his life more than I do mine. By that I mean a padeye costs about $50 each(X4) vs about $50 for one jackline. But please don't tell my wife this as this is one of the reasons I have gone back and forth-jackline vs padeye or combo.

Edited by - piseas on 07/02/2009 13:46:55

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 13:57:44

I run my jacklines from the bow cleat to the stern cleat. I run them inside the shrouds - reason being I am going forward crawling inside and I don't want to unclip.

If I fell in I think all the stanchions would break off and I'd end up in the stern hanging off the stern cleat.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 15:30:00

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 
PS, Randy's use of padeys is a good one and I know he values his life more than I do mine. By that I mean a padeye costs about $50 each(X4) vs about $50 for one jackline. But please don't tell my wife this as this is one of the reasons I have gone back and forth-jackline vs padeye or combo.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hey Steve, I value you!

We have 2 padeyes in the cockpit. Tell your wife the extra $50 will make sure you don't trip on the jackline and go overboard.

Either system is good. Use one and wear a PFD when you are out in open water.

Edited by - on

John Russell
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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 15:33:15

Jacklines, as I understand it, are not meant for retrieval of MOB but rather the prevention of going overboard in the first place. I'm going to check Chapmans but, I thought I've read that they should be amidships and the tether short enough to prevent a MOB. If you find yourself overboard getting dragged on a tehther at even 3 or 4 knots, you'll have a helluva time getting back aboard. You'll probably find it difficult to keep your head above water. Yes, they may be create a trip hazard but, no more so than any of the other lines laying on deck. I like Randy's solution except that I think the padeyes should be amidships as well.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 07/02/2009 : 17:05:18

As with so many things on a boat, there are preferred methods to rig jacklines, and there are practical methods. The preferred method is to rig it down the center of the boat, but my boat has a dodger, and, if I rig a jackline down the center, I can't get around my dodger. Therefore, I have to run jacklines from the bow cleats to the stern cleats, along either gunwale. When I go forward, I attach my tether to the windward jackline, in the hope that, if I fall, I'll fall down, not up and over the windward lifeline.

I wouldn't attach a jackline to a lifeline stanchion, because stanchions aren't secure enough. I don't know how strong the decking is under lifeline stanchions. I suppose it's stronger on some boats than on others. But I have seen a couple of boats on which lifeline stanchions have been pulled out of the deck, and I had a stanchion on my C25 break when a guest leaned on it, and I don't trust them. Cleats are made to take a load, and are a better connection point.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 07/02/2009 17:15:54

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2009 : 08:25:30

Randy, Tks! I am going out today and will seriously check on placement of padeye. I agree with John that one needs to be placed amidship. I just dont think I have the reach to go from cockpit to mast even if I had a double tether. I've got about a 2 1/2 ft arm reach even though my tether is 6ft.
And wearing a PFD is my requirement from the time I board till I return to the slip. I hope we all remember this and take wearing them seriously.
Steve M also brings up very good point re attaching to cleat and not stanchion. But that must have been on big guest to cause it to break. Was there alcohol involved?

Steve A

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2009 : 10:31:03

Docks are full of bad info, opinions, and the like. To each their own, but really....

Lifelines inside. On my C25 I had the same issues as Steve Milby, so I only ran on the port side. Attach cleat to cleat or install a padeye with a backing plate.

If you wind upside down...thats why the tether has a release! A tether with two clips allows you to go around obstructions - on my boat the boom brake - whereas with a single clip, I either have to skinny under the boom brake or unclip and reclip on the other side.

sten

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2009 : 16:53:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 
Steve M also brings up very good point re attaching to cleat and not stanchion. But that must have been on big guest to cause it to break. Was there alcohol involved?

Steve A
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">He was about the same size as me. Some folks might say that's big, but not in my presence.

There was no alcohol involved. He was in frail health and used it to support him as he boarded the boat. The weld on the brace broke, and then the pipe bent easily. I saw it happen, and he really didn't put much stress on it. The stanchion failed much too easily for my liking. It was a fresh water boat, so prolonged exposure to salt water didn't come into play.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 07/03/2009 : 23:11:45

I found this illustration that might give some ideas for placement.

I just clip and unclip but on bigger boats I've used coated wire jacklines outside the shrouds.
Some people like climbing webbing because it lays flat, the only thing is the nylon deteriorates in the sun so they don't last.

Edited by - on

windsong
Captain

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USA
318 Posts

Response Posted - 07/04/2009 : 12:20:14

I also sail alone often in the ocean with an autopilot, and I promised my wife that I would always be tethered, even in the cockpit. So I do as Steve suggests: I run two jacklines, one from each bow cleat to each stern cleat. Definitely inside the rigging. When I tack or jibe, I move my clip to the windward line. Surprisingly, I found that this means I clip and unclip less often than if I only clipped in to leave the cockpit.

Edited by - windsong on 07/04/2009 12:24:56

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2009 : 11:15:46

My problem with using the bow cleats is tying dock lines to them at the dock. With a jackline attached to the cleat a 1/2" dock line will not adequately seat in the horns.....at least that's my expereience. i have an anchor point amidships aft of the anchor locker. My tether is long enough to allow me to reach the bow. I use two lines because I can stay on the high side when moving forward, on any point of sail, and still be clipped in going forward.

Edited by - aeckhart on 07/09/2009 11:17:00

dmpilc
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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2009 : 12:27:00

For those of you with the mast plate, myself included, what about attaching a caribiner to one of the holes on the plate? Be an easy place to attach a tether. If you have a short tether, tie a 3/8" dockline with a loop in the end to the mast plate and let the loop hang over the companionway opening. Hook onto it if you have to go forward. No padeye or another hole in the deck!

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2009 : 12:34:40

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dmpilc
 For those of you with the mast plate, myself included, what about attaching a caribiner to one of the holes on the plate? Be an easy place to attach a tether. If you have a short tether, tie a 3/8" dockline with a loop in the end to the mast plate and let the loop hang over the companionway opening. Hook onto it if you have to go forward. No padeye or another hole in the deck!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
David, that is exactly what we do to go forward. We have a tether attached to the mast plate and we clip onto it when we need to go forward.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 07/09/2009 : 15:29:37

David and Randy, you bring up an interesting point, I think. Sounds like you have the tether already attached to mast plate and when needed then attached to your PFD. That would be a lot easier to do and the reverse. The only downside is you are not attached while in the cockpit. I bet Randy has a 2nd tether for that!

Steve A

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2009 : 10:51:21

If you run a dock line back to the cockpit, as mentioned above, it would be easy to stay tethered while in the cockpit. When not sailing solo, the helmsman would need to hook on to another line to avoid getting tangled with the crew.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 07/12/2009 : 11:42:52

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 I bet Randy has a 2nd tether for that!

Steve A
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You got it!

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2009 : 15:09:29

Randy, Ive got a Wichard double-action safety hook tether and there is no way I can attached to mast plate. The holes are too small. Rats. Back to the drawing board.
Steve A

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2009 : 16:29:05

PiSeas II,
That's why I suggested hooking on a caribiner to the mast plate. Attach the tether to the caribiner.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2009 : 16:38:44

Sounds like the double action hooks we have on our primary tethers that we use in the cockpit. They are beefy. For the one hooked to the mast we use a standard WM tether and its hook is not as large and sophisticated. That is OK because we don't remove this tether as we move about. Witchard makes an auto-lock [url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&keyword=155310&jspStoreDir=wm51&productId=9278&resultCt=1&catalogId=10001&ddkey=SiteSearch"]Carabiner[/url] that might go through the mast gate hole and then you could clip onto it. Spendy at $46.99 at WM but has a breaking load weight of over 6,000lbs so it is a safe piece of gear.

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 07/12/2009 : 19:35:51

D &R, didn't think the carabiner would handle that load. I have a cheapo to do a test on just to make sure I can get around.
Steve A

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 07/14/2009 : 11:26:02

I suspect that attaching to the mast plate on a C250 is a good method because the 250 doesn't have weather decks like the C25. Crew must walk over the cabin top to go foward. Too high up as far as I'm concerned. I learned very early to go forward keeping a low center of gravity to help avoid pitching over the side. I can do this on the C25's weather decks. Personally I would never buy a boat that does not have them - power or sail. They are a major safety factor when moving to the bow and back to the cockpit.

Edited by - on

NCBrew
Captain

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USA
338 Posts

Response Posted - 01/23/2010 : 20:08:48

I read with great interest this thread about jacklines and tethers. I now understand the jacklines but I am not familiar with a tether. I understand what they are but don't know the exact length or fittings on each end. Can someone explain.

Also where do I attach the tether to a standard life preserver or can anyone recommend a comfortable lifevest with an attachment point.

Thanks

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 01/24/2010 : 09:58:00

Patrick, here you go:

[url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/Safety-Harnesses-Jacklines.htm"]Safety Equipment Advisor[/url]

[url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/DisplayPageDynamicView?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&page=Content&content=VideoAdvisors.htm"]Advisor Videos[/url]

To see the video click on "Safety" on the right column and then click on "Safety Tethers" from the drop down menu.

West Marine has a lot of helpful advice on their website. Look under the tab "Product Advice."

Edited by - Nautiduck on 01/24/2010 10:01:56

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