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Crazy storage idea...

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Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/14/2009 : 16:42:32

I was thinking of ways to get Iris on and off of our flatbed trailer to move her to the marina. I know you are already cringeing, but I already own this trailer. So I have a free trailer, and access to reasonably priced concrete.

Can anyone tell me why the following wouldn't work... Build 4 of these stands so thta the white line on them represents top of grade (where they come out of th eground):

Put a steel dowel (I designed for 1-1/2" diameter steel bar) through the holes and set a beam across 2 of the stands like this. I've put plates in the tops of the stands here to re-inforce them:

Now using a hydraulic jack, I should be able to lift the cradle clean off the trailer, pull the trailer out from under it, and then lower the cradle onto blocks for winter storage.

I am guessing that the first problem that jumps to mind with this is how do you get the first inch - the space to fit a jack under the cradle while its on the trailer. I already have that solved.

"Iris"
1984 FK/SR #4040
http://frosthaus.blogspot.com/

Take a minute to register your boat with the association!!
http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/owner_questionnaire.htm

Edited by - Prospector on 05/14/2009 16:45:22

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2009 : 19:02:05

I think I see where you're going with this, but some pictures of Iris on it's cradle on the trailer would help visualize the process. Is the cradle flat across the bottom to ride on your cross beams? That was the first thing that came to my mind, how are you going to cradle the hull, but after I read through the second time I realized you must already have a cradle, you just need to move it off and on the trailer.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2009 : 21:26:00

Fair amount of labor, but it seems feasible and reasonable.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2009 : 04:28:05

Seems workable...what are the vertical columns made from...how far into what type of ground are they being set?

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2009 : 08:09:57

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 I think I see where you're going with this, but some pictures of Iris on it's cradle on the trailer would help visualize the process. Is the cradle flat across the bottom to ride on your cross beams? That was the first thing that came to my mind, how are you going to cradle the hull, but after I read through the second time I realized you must already have a cradle, you just need to move it off and on the trailer.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Exactly. There is a pic of her on the cradle here: http://littleboatiris.blogspot.com/2009/05/lucky.html

Any better ideas out there to lift her on/off a flatbed for our annual 5 mile trek to the launch crane... Its hard to swallow paying $300 each way to do this twice a year.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2009 : 08:13:51

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jerlim
 Seems workable...what are the vertical columns made from...how far into what type of ground are they being set?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good questions. I'm not a civil eng. although i work with them. The plan is to put the footing down 3 feet, and set them on about a foot of "A Gravel." I haven't even thought about re-infocing with re-bar, maybe I should design a grid. This is gettin gcomplex.

The soil is highly organic, and holds a good deal of moisture, but I could run a french drain to the creek about 20 ft away. (More scope creep...)

For uprights I was thinking PT 6X6. That should provide enough strength with the cores taken out for the dowel. The plan isn't to store the boat sitting up on this, just to use it as a lift, although storage may be a possibility. Eventually it would be nice to build an enclosure around the lift - to store our firewood in of course.

Edited by - Prospector on 05/15/2009 08:16:36

fpill
1st Mate

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USA
51 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2009 : 08:50:28

I'm sorry I have nothing to add to the engineering aspect of this, but I'm curious about your picture of Iris on the cradle. Do your kids use the swing set while Iris is there?

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2009 : 09:15:17

Yup. The kids sure do, although lately its been a bit of a danger zone with balls of tape, tools and the odd expletive flying from the boat. They are 11 and 1 so the big one is old enough to know not to send things flying toward the boat and the small on has to be swung by mom & dad.

I just had another (great??) idea for this. Rather than the "peg board" style lift, I wounder if I could bed an Acme thread screw in the concrete. Then I could use the base to lift the boat the way they used to jack locomotives. Of course, I would need to weld a "U" channel to the head of the jack to securely hold the cradle in place. [url="http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.chicagojack.com/pics/mechanical_screw-jack.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.chicagojack.com/mechanical.asp&usg=__TAjG_sJrETWV1Vx2XBXUpONgKS0=&h=194&w=97&sz=5&hl=en&start=21&um=1&tbnid=2zmjud9jzLhqWM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=52&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dscrew%2Bjack%2Brailroad%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D18%26um%3D1"]Screw Jack[/url]

Using this technique, the lifting device would be built into the footing, and be removable when the boat wasn't there, making it possible to have a flush finish in the (future) "woodshed" floor. Me likey!

Edited by - Prospector on 05/15/2009 09:17:14

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2009 : 09:53:20

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Prospector
 Any better ideas out there to lift her on/off a flatbed for our annual 5 mile trek to the launch crane... Its hard to swallow paying $300 each way to do this twice a year.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah, do what I do. Store your boat at a boatyard.

For $330.00, my boatyard hauls my boat in the fall, powerwashes it, stores it over the winter, then launches it come Spring. They also store my cradle year round. No need for a trailer nor a behemoth tow vehicle (or relying on someone with one).

How much do you pay for haulouts and launches from your trailer?

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2009 : 10:20:40

Our haulout/launch is also in the $300 range. I *think* it was around $280 last year. I haven't called for a price yet this spring.

I LOVE the convenience of having the boat in the backyard. Make maintenance so easy, hydro on tap, and quick catches to avert disaster.

Edited by - on

Ed Cassidy
Captain

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USA
365 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2009 : 11:11:11

Why not leave it on the trailer and use the money you didn't spend on the construction to buy a second flat bed trailer?

Edited by - on

glen
Captain

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359 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2009 : 11:25:53

I have a friend that would have the marina put his boat & cradle on his flat bed. One day while backing the rig into his driveway, the “A” frame broke off the trailer (it was an old trailer). Step one, make sure your trailer is up to the job

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2009 : 11:29:01

I love projects, and this is a great one! But I'm w/ Ed, why not leave the cradle on the trailer? I appreciate Iris will be sitting higher above the ground, but in your own yard, it's easy enough to put in some anchored tie-down points...

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2009 : 11:54:50

You guys are no fun. Besides, the trailer is my "spare change" maker. If it weren't for dragging it around, I wouldn't be able to buy more toys.

Lets see - replacement trailer $2,000, construction... not sure, but it would definately be fun.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2009 : 12:45:47

I think you should buy a hyraulic lift truck and hoist the boat and cradle onto the trailer. With the lift truck you could make even more "spare change" each year.

Call me lazy but I'd do what Don suggested or look for a used C25 trailer.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2009 : 13:05:28

I just spoke with one of th emore creative engineers here about this idea. I will be AFK for the long weekend, but watch for a most spectacular post here on Tuesday. It will either be a spectacular success or failure, I can't say which just yet.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/15/2009 : 13:06:29

Hey I have 1000 posts!! (Sorry to have wasted so much of your time!)

Edited by - on

Dale V
Deckhand

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USA
9 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2009 : 07:56:04

How about a 6" I beam in place of the wood with a winch on each beam. Space them so you could just get the trailer in between , winch it up, pull out and set it on the ground. Something like a real heavy duty overhead camper lift.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 05/16/2009 : 08:01:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Dale V
 How about a 6" I beam in place of the wood with a winch on each beam. Space them so you could just get the trailer in between , winch it up, pull out and set it on the ground. Something like a real heavy duty overhead camper lift.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That sounds like a pretty good idea! Four of those 12v ATV winches they sell at Northern Tool should work well and you could adjust each winch until everything was level.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2009 : 18:23:45

We await the pix...hope all went well!!

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2009 : 07:21:18

Welcome aboard Dale! Great idea on the lift, too bad I didn't see it on Friday.

Iris is sittingonthe trailer in the driveway. Things mostly went smoothly, but there were 2 "events" in th eprocess, neither of which were especially dangerous, but both of which made me use bad words. I'll post pics and details later. Gotta get some work done right now.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/19/2009 : 12:32:15

For those still following this, I have posted it to my blog (below) since it would take up a lot of space here with all the photos etc. It is a long read.

here is a direct link (for posterity, etc.) http://littleboatiris.blogspot.com/2009/05/short-work-of-long-weekend.html

Edited by - Prospector on 05/19/2009 14:33:08

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2009 : 09:48:48

What a job, what a story - WELL DONE !
As I think about it, I want to suggest temporary outriggers which attach to the cradle frame to temporarily take the load off the trailer, and then deflating the tires to remove the trailer, and then blocking up the cradle, removing the load ro the outriggers...reversing the process in the Spring...but I'm having trouble sussing how to create bracing sturdy enough outside of the trailer perimeter...

Edited by - on

mlg3733
Navigator

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118 Posts

Response Posted - 05/20/2009 : 10:42:38

While I admire the tenacity and creative spirit, I can't help but wonder: why?

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2009 : 07:01:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by mlg3733
 While I admire the tenacity and creative spirit, I can't help but wonder: why?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'd like to be all poetic and say "Because its there" but the truth is, I'm cheap.

In the end this cost me a tube of grease, $30 for a Come-Along, and $50 in Tie-down straps. Everything else I either had on hand already, or ended up taking back because I never needed it.

Would I do it again? Would I do it different?

I MAY do this again. It was a lot of work, but some things could have been done differently. As was suggested by the comment on the blog, a chain fall may have been easier than the come-along. Folks have also said that 4" pipe nipples under th ecradle would have made the pulling easier. I am not sure how well they would roll on the checker-plate floor of the trailer though. Another idea was to put a couple pieces of 1" by 1/4" flatbar on th etrailer floor and grease them to act as rails and reduce friction. I think that may also be a valid idea.

Pulling the boat behind the Astro was STUPID a dozen different ways. The vehicle is not up to the task, and anyone who pulls a boat with less than a full size truck is risking their life, and the lives of those sharing the road. I will not do that again. Max speed was 50 km/h, on one hill we dropped to 20 km/h and I wasn't sure we'd make the crest. Braking was less than adequate. The load was a little too far forward on the trailer and I got some hobby-horsing going over bumps, but no tail wagging. Next year I will either rent or borrow a proper truck.

To pay someone to pull the boat to the marina is in the $300 range, this cost me far less, and I had th econfidence that I could pull it off. With a little more focus, and the knowledge I have now, I am sure it would have gone without a hitch.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 05/21/2009 : 07:10:55

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jerlim
 What a job, what a story - WELL DONE !
As I think about it, I want to suggest temporary outriggers which attach to the cradle frame to temporarily take the load off the trailer, and then deflating the tires to remove the trailer, and then blocking up the cradle, removing the load ro the outriggers...reversing the process in the Spring...but I'm having trouble sussing how to create bracing sturdy enough outside of the trailer perimeter...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Possibly, raising the trailer would have been a solution to the blocks going unstable. If I had inflated the tires once the front of the cradle was on the trailer, the weight of the cradle would have rested on the back of the blocks instead of pushing the front of the last blocks into the ground. I also wonder if I should have removed the 2X4 that was on the front block as that may have exacerbated the problem.

In th eblog pics it is very plain to see the blocks rotating, but when I was out there I never noticed it. Funny what tunnel-vision and tiredness does to you. I need to keep that in mind for next time too!

Edited by - on

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