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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

Comparing sails

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jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Initially Posted - 05/12/2009 : 17:57:09

Is there anything like a Consumer's Report comparison for sails. I've asked for a few quotes on new sails from UK Halsey, FX Sails, and North Sails. The data I received added more questions than it answered. There are about a dozen fabric types and maybe a dozen combinations of materials multiplied by several construction designs such as parallel panels, tri-radial panels, tape reinforced sails, full or partial battens, etc. Are we just at the mercy of the sales people hoping they will honestly recommend the right combination for our constraints on cost, durability, and performance ? Or is there a logical way for us to evaluate and compare sails for ourselves ? How can I know if I would be a lot happier with the sails if I just spent a little more money? If you have bought new sails in the last 2 or 3 years <i>from a source that's still in business</i> please explain how you made the selection.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 18:23:55

I bought a headsail from [url="http://www.nationalsail.com/"]National Sail[/url] and will likely buy a new main from them as well.

I was drawn to them primarily by price. I guess, I made my purchase decision for the same reason. I read about [url="http://www.rollytasker.com/"]Rolly Tasker [/url] and was satisfied that they were a moderately priced sailmaker. If my memory serves me well (sometimes it doesn't) there are only of few manufacturers of sailcloth. I think I recall that Rolly Tasker uses one of the major cloths that Steve reviewed.

Steve Milby (at least I think it was Steve) did quite an exhaustive report to the forum about the technical differences of sailcloth and sailmaking. Search on "Sail cloth" and Steve. I think that you'll find this report.

My conclusion was that, while other lofts may, indeed, make higher quality sails in terms of the materials used or craftmanship, I decided that comparing some of the high priced lofts to Rolly Tasker was like comparing a Mercedes to a Chevrolet. Both will get you to your destination. I've been wearing a Timex for years and I'm never late for work. I don't need and can't afford a Rolex.

Edited by - John Russell on 05/12/2009 18:26:56

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3439 Posts

Response Posted - 05/12/2009 : 20:28:24

Do a search on "Sails" may yield some addl info. But mostly, each individual pretty much went out, bought a sail...and then has come back here and raved about it. So, that does not really give you a way to compare the attributes of each. Practical Sailor magazine has thru the years run some articles on sails and sailmakers. Checking back issues may also yield some of what you are requesting.

There are factors that drove each to buy the sail they bought. One consideration may be past users and their experience - if they had good experiences with the sail they bought, that sometimes is enough for another to purchase based on recommendations. For others, the price is the bottom line. The sail has to fit a certain budget - It's a deal-maker or a deal-breaker. Still, there are others that want the local guy service or want a sail that is custom-made by the sailmaker going down to the boat and taking measurements rather than buying a sail thru the internet from a sailmaker that has Catalina configured sails off-the-shelf or an internet provider that wants you to take the measurements and send them in. Then there are those that realize that the dough is basically going to buy sailcloth and so they want to get into all the details regarding the different grades of sailcloth and the specs on them.

I went with Quantum. Quantum is semi-local to me but they came down and took measurements off my boat and then had the sails made in their South African shop. They then shipped the sails to me - a new main and a 150% furling rig genoa. The sail cost quite a bit more than off-the-shelf sails but the sails are also made of a higher quality dacron than what most sail-makers are making their sails out of but it is just that many never check those specs and just think that dacron s dacron. Many sails (except for Doyle and North that have their own proprietary sailcloth or use a UK Dacron) make their sails out of Challenge Dacron sailcloth. Challenge makes Dacron sails in 4 grades of Dacron. Basically, the lower grades stretch more than the higher grades but it is more complicated than that. The grades from lower grade to higher grade are: Challenge Performance, High Modulus, High Aspect and Marblehead. My sails are made of Challenge High Aspect. Each of these grades also come in various weights...so this does become complicated. What i can tell you is that a lower grade heavier weight sail is oftentimes going to stretch sooner than a lighter weight higher grade dacron sail. The Challenge website has all the performance curves believe testing the sails at 2 different force levels and then measuring stretch. Of course, sail cloth is not the whole story either. But if you go with a reputable sailmaker and a high grade Dacron, you are going to have a high quality, low stretch sail...but at high cost. Many are happy with a reputable sailmaker and whatever sailcoth he uses...at a much more reasonable cost. So...you may have to do some homework on this one.

Besides Quantum making cruising sails out of High Aspect, Mack Sails in Florida also makes it out of same matl. Mack Sails has an excellent website that will take you down the Dacron spec world if that is where you want to go. Below are the websites to check out the specs but it's going to take you a bit of leg-work to put it altogether. On the other hand.....you are going to pay more for a sail made out of High Aspect and many have bought sails from excellent sailmakers that made the sails out of High Modulus or Performance Challenge matls.

There are excellent recommendations by all those that have bought sails and recommend them...and then there are these two websites if you want to get into the thick of things:

http://www.macksails.com/sailclth.htm
http://www.challengesailcloth.com/cloth.htm

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2009 : 12:38:51

When we had a C22 we bought our sails from Catalina Direct and they used the Ullman loft. We were very happy with those sails. I wish Catalina Direct carried sails for the C250.

Edited by - on

islandplanet
Deckhand

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USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 05/13/2009 : 17:29:36

I've given seminars on how to get the most bang for the buck when buying sails. Practically everyone in the business has outsourced production to overseas loft. Often times the same loft is building sails for a dozen different labels!
The combination of outsourcing and sail design software has leveled the playing field between the big names and smaller independent lofts. Smaller independents don't have all the overhead of big name franchise lofts and can often provide a better value.
I've got a great article about the globalization of sailmaking that was written by Nigel Calder. Contact me through our website - www.IslandPlanetSails.com
Click "Get a quote" and just write in the notes field you want a copy of the article.

Edited by - on

DaveR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2015 Posts

Response Posted - 05/14/2009 : 06:42:31

Nice job there Larry. I'm totally ignorant of what constitutes a decent sail and this helps me understand a little better. Still, I'm bound by my wallet and have to stick with a cheaper sail. I bought a 155 from National Sails 2 years ago and was satisfied so when my original (1989) 110 ripped this spring I went back to them for a replacement. $500 including tax and shipping. Off the shelf sails but decent stuff and got here quick. I'm sure they will provide me with years of cruising!

Edited by - DaveR on 05/14/2009 06:43:18

jbkayaker
Captain

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USA
299 Posts

Response Posted - 05/17/2009 : 08:49:23

http://www.rollytasker.com/dealer-locations-links.asp
Take a look at the above website and you will see that more than one of the sail sources mentioned above are dealers for sails made by Rolly Tasker in Phuket, Thailand.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2009 : 07:46:02

I have a lot of confidence in North, and suggest that you discuss your needs with one of their representatives, regardless of whether you ultimately buy from them. Their interest is in selling you a sail. They really don't have an interest in selling you a sail that won't meet your needs, and that you'll end up hating. I haven't <u>always</u> bought their sails, but respect their advice. The first time I bought sails, I told North where I planned to sail, and how I intended to use the sails (racing and cruising), and let them guide me to the right sail choices. You can talk with them at a boat show, or call their 800 number, or stop in to a local sail loft, if there's one in your area.

If you don't know much, technically, about sails, the bigger name companies like North and Quantum, are more likely to provide you a good product. If you are knowledgeable about sails, and can specify clearly what you want, then some of the discount sailmakers are capable of providing sails that are nearly as good as the big companies. But, if you can't specify what you want, the discounters might very well sell you whatever they have on the shelf that is a close fit.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 05/18/2009 : 21:32:06

Glad to see Islandplanet chiming in here. I bought a Rolly Tasker 150 genoa from them (dealt with Dave Benjamin) for our C22 a few years ago and am very happy with it. Good value for the money.

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mariner
Deckhand

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USA
3 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2009 : 11:59:57

You can buy sails from catalina. Just call the eight hunderd number at the bottom of the web page and ask for parts department.
rich

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 07/24/2009 : 14:48:14

Catalina Direct now sells sails for the C250. I have used them for my old C22 and was very happy with their Ullman Offshore sails.

Edited by - on

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