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Temporary Topping Lift

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Blue Nose
1st Mate

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67 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/29/2009 : 09:09:11

Since there is no topping lift on my boat and using the pigtail to hold the boom while raising the mainsail makes me nervous, I was wondering if I could set up a temporary topping lift. I was thinking I could use the main halyard and attach a double block to it and haul it up the mast to the top. I could use one side of the block to serve as the main halyard and the other side to serve as a topping lift. Then this winter when I am ready to drop the the mast I will set up a permanent solution.

Is this a satisfactory way to handle it or are there good reasons for not going down this road? My main halyard is 5/16's low stretch rope.

Thanks

1986 C-25 FK Tall Rig
"Blue Nose"
Mobjack Bay, Virginia

Edited by - on

JohnP
Master Marine Consultant

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1520 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 09:35:08

That's a creative idea, but then you will have lowered the hoisting length of your temporary main halyard after adding the block.

Positives: You'd have a topping lift, and you could raise the main safely and not depend on the pigtail.

Negatives: You'd need to check if your mainsail has a straight luff if hoisted the new, reduced distance up to the new block, and if it's not straight, then the sail shape and performance will be poor in all conditions. But it may be ok. Also, you still would have to drop the mast at some later time and install a normal topping lift. Sounds like a simple job for marina staff, if you have those guys available, and can convince them to do it cheaply.

Suggestion: Take up Brooke on his offer to look over your rigging before doing anything. Maybe there's some way to avoid all this!

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 09:45:32

I'm guessing you have a furler and don't have the use of a fore sail halyard? We've got both a furler and a jib halyard as a 'Justen Case' measure...you could use the fore sail halyard as the topping lift if available.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 10:38:45

Isn't there anyone in your area with a bosun's chair you could borrow for an hour? If so, send a smart person up the mast and tie off a rope end to the backstay anchor pin. The line has to be long enough to tie off at the boon end. When I had one, te topping lift ran through a cheek block near the boom end fitting and tied off on a small cleat.

By the way, the person going up the mast does not necessarily have to be small. I've been up twice in a bosun's chair and I'm a 6 footer, 200 lbs. One of those times was while under way.

Edited by - on

Blue Nose
1st Mate

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67 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 12:02:10

I've never used a bosun's chair but it looks easy enough. I suppose you secure the main halyard to the chair and use the winch to raise the person up? All that needs to be done is shackle a block to the mast head and run a 1/4 inch line through the block. Probably a 15 minute job I suppose.

Anything to be mindful of when using the chair?

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 12:10:07

An 8' beam on a Catalina 25 is a marginal base. I always tie off docklines very tight and make sure people know to NOT MOVE AROUND ON THE DECK while someone is up the mast. Always have a second halyard tied off to the climber as a safety, Bosun chairs get little use and can rot between uses. Take a messenger line up with you so if something falls or you forgot something the person working the winch or the person tailing the winch can send it up to you.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 12:53:09

Ditto the safety line. On my only trip up, it was to free a jammed main halyard so I had no safety line available to use. Fortunately, the bosun's chair was new, but I was still nervous the whole time, perhaps because everyone else on the boat except one was a newbie. They got an extra lesson that day.
Unless you plan to run the topping lift line down the mast and aft to the cockpit, forget the block on the masthead pin and just tie diameter a small line to the pin and run it down to the boom end. Tie it off there if you don't need to adjust it, or pass it through a block and run it forward along the boom to a cleat.

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 12:53:10

My GF uses a climbing harness. Also a line around her and the mast, you hafta clip out and back on below and above the spreaders using a carabiner. Ditto especially on the extra line. She says no problem, loves to go up.

We know climbers that let us use their gear until we bought our own, but it was good to talk with them for confidence.

Learned a new knot. ( double or Spanish Bowline I think )

regards.ray

Edited by - on

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 13:02:58

The other issue to be mindful of when using a chair is how well the line and the sheaves match up at the top. If your sheaves are old and chipped and were made for wire, and you are using small line and wenching at an angle the line can jump the sheave and get jammed. Another reason to have an extra line. My 1984 converted to rope will jump the sheave and jam, so I need new sheaves. Also I need a mast plate at the bottom to be able to wench with little angle on the line.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 13:58:16

Why not just lower the mast, add the topping lift and then raise the mast back up? You could do it in an hour easy. One of the benefits of a small sailboat is the ability to easily lower and raise the stick. Personally, I would not climb the mast when lowering it is so easy. YMMV.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 14:08:16

I tend to agree with Nauti - Also lowering the mast gives you a chance to take a boo at rarely inspected spots that you might not take time to check on while up in the bosun's seat.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 14:23:01

Two things first.
Try to rig the boat correctly using the main halyard could lead to problems raising and lowering the main.
Also, lowering the mast is, of course, the safest way to rig anything at the top of the mast and should you forget something or run into issues you can make that run to the hardware store allot easier.

However if you need to go up you might try what I do.
I use a webbing mast ladder.
I used it to install a block at the top of the mast and run a topping lift from the back of the boom up to the block, down the mast then back to the cockpit through my [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.com/tech/tech25/tt008.asp"]triple clutches.[/url]
Here is one version called The Mast Mate

Mine has PVC tubes on each footstep so it is a bit easier to climb.
Be sure to tension it down to the deck so it is pulled taut and wear a harness to clip in as you climb. I use a rock climbing harness, carabiners and a sling to go around the mast when I get to the top as I do this alone.

Most of these ladders have grommets for track slides to keep the ladder tight to the mast.

You remove the main and insert the slides on the ladder and hoist with the main halyard.
I had enough slides to leave on the ladder, it's worth buying another set, they're cheap.

Underlined words are a HOT link to subject.

Edited by - on

Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 17:50:19

If I had to add a topping lift, I would lower the mast and get it done.
The mast is easy to lower and raise. I remember a member of this association posting a youtube video he made on how he lowers and raises the mast himself; I think it took him less than 10 minutes.

Best,
Deric

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 18:02:00

Dropping the mast is assuredly the best way to go (IMHO). Do some searches here on the subject and educate yourself on the process. You can drop the mast in ten minutes with the proper setup or in 3 seconds with an uneducated attempt. I would have a number of tasks lined up before I did so. Adding a topping lift would not be, singularly, enough reason for me to drop the mast.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 19:11:36

If you have a jib furler, what's the procedure for lowering the mast?

Do you have to remove the furler, or can you just loosen the foot and allow it to come down when you drop the mast to the stern?

Edited by - on

Blue Nose
1st Mate

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67 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2009 : 08:07:19

Voyager,
That has been my concern all along. It seems as if the process is much more involved if you have a furling system with easily damaged foils. What would the sequence be? What precautions should you take to protect the furler. Lower to the bow or stern? I really like the idea of the mast mate! May have to buy one. Seems like a good alternative to a bosuns chair.

Edited by - on

Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2009 : 08:50:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Blue Nose
 Voyager,
That has been my concern all along. It seems as if the process is much more involved if you have a furling system with easily damaged foils. What would the sequence be? What precautions should you take to protect the furler. Lower to the bow or stern? I really like the idea of the mast mate! May have to buy one. Seems like a good alternative to a bosuns chair.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

BN,
Although I recommended the Mast Mate look at the [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r33VCObNroY"]video of a Catalina 25 stepping the mast.[/url]
It looks like he has a furler.
Look for "Part 2 (II) he put close ups of the hardware needed.
I had to go up the mast because I am on a mooring and didn't want to take the mast down. Of course I could have thought about a topping lift during the winter when the mast was off the boat but that would have taken foresight.

Good luck
Take your time and try to get all the controls right so you don't run into problems on the water.

Underlined words are a HOT link to subject.

Edited by - on

aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2009 : 10:35:35

John,

Where did you get the web ladder? It looks like a perfect compliment to the bosuns's chair.

Edited by - on

Blue Nose
1st Mate

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67 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2009 : 12:16:51

I looked at the video on You-tube and it does look relatively simple for him. The guy in the video has obviously spent hours designing and building specialized equipment to allow him to do this. The "A" frame alone is probably a weekend's work of work and design. He also has all the quick releases shackles, blocks, lines, etc. he needs to do this quickly. I am guessing it would take 3-4 people to take the place of the equipment he has designed. I found it very interesting and informative but I am certain it isn't as quick and easy as he makes it look unless you have the equipment and lots of practice. So I am thinking the Mast Mate is sounding better and better!! ;o)

Peregrine - thanks for the link to the video - it is very good!!

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2009 : 12:41:41

The process for lowering the mast with a furler is simple. Disconnect the furler at the bow and lower the mast as usual. Same thing you would do with just a forestay. We take a ski cap and put it on the furler drum to avoid it having any damage or banging into things. Don't know about other foils but the CDI foil is basically indestructable. You'd have to try to damage it.

I bet 90% of us raise and lower our masts at least once a year. It is well worth the effort to get the gear ready and it will last you a lifetime. There are plenty of posts (search A-frame) that describe how to build a simple system for a C25.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2009 : 15:49:40

I haven't done it, but I'll venture to say that an aluminum foil furler complicates things a little. I had one, and I think you'd better have at least one, maybe two people attending to it as the mast comes down. Mine had joints between sections that could be vulnerable if it isn't kept reasonably straight. Also, my Hood drum was a lot heavier than the CDI's.

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Davy J
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1511 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2009 : 16:50:55

That's my video of lowering and then raising the mast. You do not need every piece of equipment I have to do so. But they make it much faster. You would at the very least need the A-Frame, the block at the stem fitting and the line to the cockpit. The A-frame took about an hour and a half to build, tools needed are a hack saw or sawzall, vice, hammer. I would agree with Dave Bristle about the foil, I installed a CDI just for that reason.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2009 : 18:51:42

You could work on perfecting a technique where using the pigtail is not that big a deal and instead spend your time sailing.

I had a few major scares using the pigtail while single-handing when I first got my boat. A few times I hoisted the main and forgot to unhook the pigtail. Needless to say that as soon as that happened the boat decided it wanted to turn broadside to the wind. After scrambling back to the tiller I was able to turn the boat back into the wind and unhook the boom from the pigtail. I was pulling on the boom trying to keep as much tension off the rigging as possible and it did get my heart rate up but it all worked out and I learned from it (this was not in calm lake water or calm winds).

After about the third time of doing that (I'm a slow learner) I learned to unhook the boom from the pigtail and lay it on top of the bimini and then quickly hoist the main. That technique works for me. Others probably use a different technique that works for them. I've also partially raised the main and then unhooked it from the pigtail.

If you've got any crew at all they can keep the boat headed into the wind and unhooking the boom from the pigtail becomes a non-issue. They could even hold the end of the boom up while you hoist the main.

After those scares and to try and make it easier while single-handing I decided to add a topping lift last summer while I had the mast down rewiring my lights. I've never gotten around to mounting the hardware to actually use it. It's still wrapped around the backstay.

What I'm trying to get across is by working on your technique you might be able to come up with a plan that will get you through the summer until you take the mast down next fall. It will also help build your confidence.

BTW, the Mast Mate is something like $350.00 new. I personally am not going to spend that kind of money on something that will only get used occasionally. If you have some friends with sailboats you could go in together to reduce the individual cost.

If you really want to mount a topping lift now, dropping the mast really isn't that big a deal. I did it by myself in the water and I was really surprised how easy it was.

Let us know what you decide to do and how you did it. Good luck and happy sailing!

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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2402 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2009 : 07:33:25

Our club has a mastemate and several bosun's chairs, people just use them when they need them. Technically they belong to individuals but sailors share.

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Peregrine
Admiral

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830 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2009 : 07:51:21

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aeckhart
 John,

Where did you get the web ladder? It looks like a perfect compliment to the bosuns's chair.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I bought a "Captain Al's" quite awhile ago and I see references to it on the web but no sellers. Maybe they are out of business. I'm sure I paid about $60-70 for it.
Although a 27' "Mast Mate" costs $240 not $350 that is still very pricey for something that gets used every other year at most.
I could see a club or better a C-25/250 local fleet buying one to share.
Great idea.

Edited by - Peregrine on 05/01/2009 07:52:02

crcalhoon
Captain

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USA
303 Posts

Response Posted - 05/01/2009 : 15:44:32

About 10 of us at the marina went together and bought a Mast Mate. We pro-rated the cost dependent on mast height. We bought an industrial, break away safety harness to go with it. We bought a plastic dock box from Wal Mart and bolted it to the dock with a combination lock to which we all have the combo. This thing is a little age dependent. You can get it in two configurations one with the steps about 14" apart and one 17 or 18". Most of us are "older gentlemen" and we are discussing sending it back for trade-in on the 14" model which is somewhat more expensive, but split this many ways it doesn't really matter. On average, the whole get-up cost us each about $40. Probably would have been another $8-10 for the 14" steps. If I were still 35 yeas old, the steps wouldn't matter, but. . .

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