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electric bildge and sink pump questions

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AaronOnTheHudson
Deckhand

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7 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/29/2009 : 07:32:24

(1) I found a few posts about running new lines or a T at the main sink. This is probably a stupid question, but why can't I just hook an electric bilge pump to the existing manual bilge pump line (would the manual pump not allow water to pass?)

(2) Has anyone installed an electric / auto sink pump? If so what parts / products would be recommended?

Thanks in advance!

2005 C250 WK #847

Edited by - on

Navy1
Navigator

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USA
126 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 08:42:22

Aaron, I'm glad you asked that question, because I was going to ask the same thing. I also want to put a T in the bilge pump (manual) line and hook up the electric pump I just bought to that same line. I hope I don't have to run a second drain line out of the boat for the electric bilge pump. Roger

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 09:04:32

Guys,
In general it's a bad idea to tee into your existing bilge pump, I won't go into details, but you can read the various threads here on [url="http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18016&SearchTerms=bilge,pump"]my bilge pump install[/url]. You can also read Paul's (britinusa) original thread that got me going on my install at the top of my first post. I decided to route another hose to the stern of the boat with a second thru hull. I didn't take pictures of that part, but I can tell you what I did if you've got questions.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 10:53:51

I'd not use a tee... but I'd certainly check out simply running a similar volume bilge pump through the manual and I confess I'm saying that without any experience.

The manual pump most likely uses one way membrane or flapper valves and they should (?) open to exhaust water from the bilge hose.

The powered pump of course would have to allow the manual pump to draw through it.

I agree, I don't think teeing is the way to go.

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 17:24:26

If you T it, all you'll get is water back into the boat. And check valves are not recommended for bilge pump lines. Why do you think you need one, my bilge had spiders!

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 17:53:33

I'd recommend that you run a separate bilge hose parallel to the existing one with its own outlet on the hull. This has been done by others who will likely chime in soon.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 04/29/2009 17:54:26

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/29/2009 : 20:44:00

I recall looking into this and finding that (1) bilge pump makers say no check valves--so if teed, the manual pump will likely just push water out of the electric, and (2) an electric pump maker said not to run through the manual pump--that it would reduce output by some large percent (like maybe half). Try the Search function--there have been a number of discussions for C-25s as well as C-250s.

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Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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2980 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2009 : 08:15:54

Hey Dave,

Good point and that is why I said "similar volume" above. Even so, I've no argument that even an equal volume electric bilge pump would have its volume reduced slightly but that then raises the question, what is the goal of the electric pump?

If it is to save the boat from a sinking if the hull is breached, then obviously no compromise of volume is acceptable and one may wish for an electric pump of much greater volume than can be flowed through the manual. However, if the goal is to sump a chronic wet bilge with minor inflow... the smallest model pump will do that job exceedingly well and probably do it with the simplest of hookups flowing it through the existing manual bilge, so that either can get the job done.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2009 : 08:59:42

Then the next question is how well can the manual pump pull water through the impeller of the electric? One could try it and find out--then cut another hole.

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Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2009 : 09:15:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 I'd recommend that you run a separate bilge hose parallel to the existing one with its own outlet on the hull. This has been done by others who will likely chime in soon.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Which is exactly what I did. I installed a 1100 Rule with an automatic switch. I ran the discharge hose right along side the manual pump hose. I did this a few years ago but if memory serves me, the hose runs to the Port under the head floor into the hanging locker. From there it runs down the port side in the aft berth storage. I drilled and installed a second thru hull next to the existing one.
Installed a three way (on/off/auto) Rule pump switch near the LPG switch on the starboard side.

This is looking in the hanging locker. The white hose is the one I installed. (If I had it to do over again I would use a better grade of hose)

Port aft berth storage area.

Pump Switch

Second thru hull

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 04/30/2009 : 10:43:10

My install is virtually identical to Tom's (with good reason, I copied a lot of it).

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AaronOnTheHudson
Deckhand

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7 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2009 : 12:17:28

Thank you everyone for your help and suggestions.

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Navy1
Navigator

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USA
126 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2009 : 20:03:26

In regard to installing a new thru-hull for an electric bilge pump, there is no way I can get back in that aft compartment to hook up the second bilge pump line. Why can't I install a new thru hull on the starboard side, straight across from the bilge hatch and high on the hull? Thanks - Roger

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essen48183
Navigator

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USA
143 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2009 : 20:38:20

Can you remove the bulkhead between the battery compartment and the aft bunk?

I haven't done it, but if memory serves I considered it when adding the wheel and open wire steering. It looked to be about 15 screws that are easy to get to with a powerdriver.

Edited by - essen48183 on 05/04/2009 20:41:25

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/04/2009 : 21:16:34

Essen & Roger,
Yes, you can pretty easily remove it (my wife has done it a couple of times all by herself as well as installed it). It's a bit of a wrestling match to get it out of it's spot once it's free, but you figure it out after the first time. I'm a pretty big guy and can work back there, admittedly in discomfort, but it can be done. Rita on the other hand can fit through the battery door which can be handy.

Roger,
I'm not sure there's a good spot on the starboard bulkhead that's easy to get to from the bilge. It's way easier to route the hose straight back towards the aft berth, then head to port & come up through the hanging locker, then straight back to the battery compartment along the bottom of the storage tray on the port side of the aft berth. You have to drill two holes to do it, and you can route the extra hose alongside the original the rest of the way, with no modification to the battery compartment bulkhead or the back of the hanging locker (don't quote me there, don't remember having to drill a hole, but maybe I did).

Edited by - delliottg on 05/04/2009 21:25:06

Navy1
Navigator

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USA
126 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2009 : 12:13:57

David, I misquoted. I meant to say why can't I come up in the PORT storage shelf area with the hose, and then go straight out thru the hull, as high up as possible, just behind the hanging clothes locker with the "thru-hull"? Last week I screwed my back up working in the aft berth, and besides I have cables and controls going thru the wall on the starboard side, along with a battery charger mounted on the wall in there. Also, I have two batteries mounted side by side right in front of the door. It has to be somewhere other than that aft battery compartment. Is there any real problem with putting the thru hull straight across from the bilge door, high on the port wall, just behind the closet wall? Thanks - Roger

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2009 : 12:20:59

As long as it's about the same height as the original bilge pump through-hull, I don't see why not. If anything you'll be shortening your run, which reduces the resistance to flow (don't have to push the water all the way to the back of the boat), so you'll probably get somewhat better throughput from the pump.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/05/2009 : 14:13:18

I'm trying to visualize all of this. I think that going through just aft of the wet locker will mean that you are going through the inner liner that makes up the cabin and then the hull. Back behind the aft bulkhead I believe you are just going through the hull, there is no liner back there. Not sure if that will make a difference.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 05/05/2009 14:15:13

Navy1
Navigator

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USA
126 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2009 : 07:26:54

Randy, I'm not sure if it will make a difference either. Never thought of the liner. Hopefully the thru-hull I ordered from WM will be long enough to go thru the liner and the hull. Time will tell. Roger

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Tom Potter
Master Marine Consultant

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1913 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2009 : 09:14:25

Roger,
If your going to put the thru-hull through the liner you may want to make the hole in the liner large enough so the thru-hull nut will pass through it and tighten against the hull and not against the liner. So the liner hole will need to be larger than the nut also with enough room to get wrench on the nut to tighten it. There's nothing but space between the liner and hull and that space can be between 1/2 to 1 inch. Drawing the nut tight against the liner will pinch the liner and cause issues with sealing the thru-hull.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 05/06/2009 : 12:56:16

Tom, I believe you are quite right. Make the hole in the liner an access hole so that the thru-hull connection is only dealing with the actual hull. That should do it. You can use a hole saw because you'll need to go through the actual hull anyway. A larger hole saw just through the liner (be careful!) and then a smaller one for the hull. Personally, I'd take some Advil and then do the work in the aft area by the existing thru-hull.

Still, a nice idea to reduce hose length. Please post pictures when you are done.

Edited by - Nautiduck on 05/06/2009 13:00:25

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