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C25 leaking windows/portholes

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Dazed Sailor
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/25/2009 : 06:56:42

Has anyone repaired the side windows/portholes in a C25?
I do not want to take them out until I know what I will be up against.
Dennis

Dennis
1982 C25 2954
T/R

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2009 : 08:22:32

Try the Search function (above) selecting the C-25 forum and searching for "leak" and "window"--you'll get more discussions than you'll ever need.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5353 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2009 : 08:24:08

Dennis --
I have not done this YET, but soon. I did take the inner trim off one of the windows, and noticed some gaps between the fiberglass, the glass and the sealing material.

According to several posts you can research on the Forum, kits are available from Catalina Direct. It's a good idea to give them a call to find out what the reinstallation process entails.

Edited by - on

Dazed Sailor
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2009 : 08:53:25

Thank you for the information. I am making some good progress getting the boat ready for the season.
Dennis

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2009 : 09:04:49

Incidentally Dennis, this is a good example of where it's useful to know some things about your boat--in this case, the vintage, since the windows (deadlights) have changed. Note the "signatures" that have a summary of the boat--year, rig, and keel. It's a useful shortcut.

Also, most of us have started out with a little rain seepage here and there, and attacked it incrementally, year by year. Don't let it keep you from getting out and sailing.

Worst case, lash a tarp over the cabin when you'll be away from the boat for a while.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2009 : 10:43:29

Lash a tarp over the cabin top anyway. Keeps the sun off of the wood trim.

Edited by - on

pjeffarch
Navigator

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USA
135 Posts

Response Posted - 04/25/2009 : 11:22:23

I have a '79; I removed the windows three years ago, resealed, and it has worked well, with some seepage happening over this winter. It's an intense job, but it was worth it. Also was able to inspect the fiberglass around the window wells; all was 'well'. Good luck Dennis.

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2009 : 12:37:10

We did the entire process 2 yrs ago w/ the kit from CD. The kit was fine, it's a big job and I suggest doubling the time you plan, and letting others know this will take some time...I however rushed the job...while improved the windows still seep...I'm a bit hesitant to go through the whole process again, not the least of the concerns is the soft aluminum that the screws seat into...

Edited by - jerlim on 04/27/2009 12:38:55

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2009 : 19:24:31

I just replaced all my window seals with the CD kit about 3 weeks ago. I did all the work and was really looking forward to some leak free windows. Turns out, the following weekend after installing them back on the boat, I find the windows have been leaking again. I know the water is seeping in between the aluminum frame and the glass, but I applied plenty of sealant. The only place I think I may have not put enough or any sealant is where the two aluminum frames meet together, the ends of the extrusion. Just this weekend I applied just a small amount of sealant at those joints on the exterior hoping that may cure the leak. I have a nice silicone filling around the entire perimeter, so I was shocked to find the leak. The original rubber seals were dry rotted and stiff.

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5353 Posts

Response Posted - 04/27/2009 : 20:39:48

Silicone must be compressed to work. In the re-sealing kit, is there anything to compress the silicone and create a tight seal?

In keeping with Dave B's mantra, Life Seal (aka polysulfide) is better. It remains flexible for a long time and it sticks to the work under its own force.

But, it doesn't form a permanent seal like the polyuethane sealant. If you use this stuff, you may need dynamite to dislodge it next time you need to remove it.

Edited by - on

Justin
Admiral

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502 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2009 : 04:08:44

The kit includes some heavy duty window silicone for where the rubber seals wrap around the perimeter of the glass. 3M 4200 polysulfide is included to mount the entire assembled window to the cabin top. Talking about compression... you have to squeeze the aluminum frames together over the rubber seals and screw them together.

Edited by - on

Dazed Sailor
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2009 : 06:36:26

I have gone to CD and looked at the kit that they offer and it appears to be quite complete for resealing the windows. After reading these newest posts I am wondering if anyone has had a successful repair with the kit or if it would be better to just buy some clear silicone sealer and use that.

1982
C25 Tall Rig

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2009 : 07:15:10

In addition to resealing w/ silicon, the rubber gaskets also usually need replacement, and the frames rebedded.

Edited by - on

farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2009 : 07:45:31

I just re-did all my windows this month also. The Dow Corning 975 sealant provided to seal the glass seems to be working well, but I do have one window that is leaking between the frame and cabin. It is important to get a sufficient quantity of 4200 on the frame to make the cabin-top seal. The frame flanges are not flat on the frame corners from the way the aluminum extrusion was bent into the window shape, so extra sealant is needed there. With the rough cut opening of the window, the sealant area of the frame is only about 3/8" to 1/2" so you have to make sure that the flange has a good seal. Also, the thickness of the two fiberglass panels (exterior and cabin liner) is not consistant, and if it is too thin, then when you screw the inner frame in tight against the outer frame, the two frames come together before the the outer frame is drawn in tight against the sealant and cabin, leaving a gap the can leak.
Oh well, one out of six isn't too bad.

Paul

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2009 : 08:24:32

Clear silicone sealant is insidious... Anywhere that it's exposed to sunlight, it'll turn brownish. Any little smear will do the same, and be almost impossible to completely remove from gelcoat or wood. If you remove or re-bed something that's bedded with silicone, it can be almost impossible to completely remove the old stuff, and nothing (including silicone) will stick to it properly.

Since my name was invoked, I'll clarify: 3M 4200 is a polyurethane caulk, like 5200 only slightly less adhesive (just slightly). I wouldn't use either for anything above the waterline--too hard to pull apart and remove later (without potential damage).

3M 101 is polysulfide, essentially the same as Boatlife Life Caulk (my personal favorite). These are recommended for sealing things that might need to be removed, replaced, or re-bedded some time in the future. Some compression is recommended (tightening after the seal is cured).

Boatlife Life Seal is polysulfide and silicone, and behaves like polysulfide as far as I can tell. It's recommended over plain polysulfide for bedding anything made of plastic. Compression is recommended.

Then there's Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure... watery stuff that flows down into a very small gap or crack and sets up sorta like silicone. It's one of those "when all else fails" options. I've used it, and it worked, but I don't unequivocally recommend it.

Pick your poison.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/28/2009 08:26:22

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2009 : 09:08:35

Thanks for the suggestion - I'm thinking I need to get acquainted w/ Cap'n Tolley...

Edited by - on

Dazed Sailor
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2009 : 11:10:03

This does not look like someting you would want to atempt at the boat yard with out access to all of you work shop and or tools. Does anyone have a rough estimate of time involed to reseal all six windows?

Edited by - on

Nukey
Deckhand

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USA
13 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2009 : 12:01:37

I have tried the kit...windows still leak. I used plenty of sealant but I think my frames are just in too bad of condition.

Has anybody tried the replacement window kit from cruising concepts? They seem a little pricey and nobody ever answers the phone when I call them. I'd like to think they have some kind of customer support before I send $900 down the river!

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2009 : 12:08:02

Dennis - if I had to do it again, I'd allow 8 - 10 hrs total (I know it seems like a lot), along w/ a helper for the final refit of 3 - 4 hrs. I took the windows out, gaff taped plastic across the openings, and did most of the work back at home.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2009 : 12:47:57

My kit arrived with 4200, and I was expecting 4000UV. 4000UV sounds pretty good, so I went to WM and bought a tube and will give it a try on the frames. I have no interest in bedding with 4200, but 4000UV is removeable and I can always re-do the frames with polysufide if it doesn't work as advertised. I am currently cleaning all traces of old silicone off the glass and frames, an important step for a long term seal, and I hope to launch next week (several things got in the way this month.

Edited by - on

Dazed Sailor
Deckhand

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USA
23 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2009 : 12:54:29

I am interested in all that has been said still looking for the succes story of no problems or leaks after all the work involved. So far since buying my boat I have spent most of the dry days here (St. Louis) repiring the tounge, coupler and brakes on the trailer. Still need to check out running lights and replace some interior light that were damaged from leaking windows.
Does anyone kow of a reasonably good 150 genoa for a tall rig?

Edited by - on

Mike Rauh
Deckhand

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11 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2009 : 14:18:11

I purchased the kit from CD and did the four large windows one year and the two small ones the next year.

Removing the windows wasn't too difficult but getting all the old materials off them and the fiberglass was tough. The re-installation process will be less complicated if you have a second person to help.

After 2 years, the leaks are definitely reduced but not 100%. My worst problem is at the slider in the head. Overall, it was worth the time and effort.

I also suspect that if/when the weight of a person is added by anyone standing on the cabin top to do work, it may slightly break the seal between the fiberglass and the aluminum frame . . .

Edited by - on

jerlim
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1484 Posts

Response Posted - 04/28/2009 : 15:18:58

Mike - good point about traffic across the cabin top...we are all over that all the time...

Edited by - on

Mark Maxwell
Captain

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USA
329 Posts

Response Posted - 05/02/2009 : 23:41:51

I did my windows with RV putty tape. Lasts about 4 to 5 years. Easy to use and clean up is a snap. The down side is the blistering sun can soften it too much and make the putty sag. It also holds on to dirt, pollen. But the ease of appling it makes up for the added occasional maintaince cleaning.

Upside is being able to remove with ease and check on the condition of the wood/fiberglass around the window opening. I had a friend who used a more permanent adheasive and was unaware that the outer seal was letting moisture into the wood (not the boat interior) until it was too late.

Edited by - on

fpill
1st Mate

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USA
51 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2009 : 07:56:46

Dennis,
I just rebedded the 4 deadlights in the salon. I followed Paul's
[Paul H ’82 Catalina 25 SR/WK (converted)]
directions from the Feb 09 Mainsheet article. Although, I'm not in the water yet we have had some heavy rain and the windows have held up fine. If I remember correctly the only major difference from what he did was I used Life-Caulk between the widow frame and the fiberglass of the boat.
4 suggestions:
1. Give yourself much more time than you think it will take.
2. Dry fit the windows (in the channel, and on the boat) before you put any caulk on them.
3. Having another set of hands when putting the windows back together and installing the windows on the boat will save a lot of mental anguish.
4. Realize no matter how careful you are the caulk (or sealant) is going to be a mess.
I hope this helps.

Edited by - on

Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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USA
3758 Posts

Response Posted - 05/03/2009 : 10:10:31

I just finished a six hour day of dry fitting, cleaning (mineral spirits, acetone, and windex) and finally sealing and assembly followed by another cleaning of smears and squeeze out of the deadlights. After a 2 day cure, I will dry fit and install and hope for the best

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