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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Nissan/Tohatsu 6 hp Extra Long Shaft-Sail Pro

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Wogman
Deckhand

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21 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/08/2009 : 23:43:17

Nissan/Tohatsu has a 2009 6 hp extra long shaft Sail Pro 4 stroke weighing in at 59 lbs. This may be a winner for the C-250, if 6 hp is enough. Only drawback is it's a manual start. My Johnson Sailmaster 9.9 has power to spare but I'd like to upgrade to a 4 stroke. Will 6 hp get the job done?

Here's a link to the specs: http://www.onlineoutboards.com/Tohatsu-6-hp-MFS6BUL.html

Paul
"Sundew"
1995 C250WB #83
Folsom Lake, CA
"Don't Give Up The Ship"

Edited by - Wogman on 04/09/2009 00:24:17

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 00:27:36

I'd think if you're on a lake, a 6 HP OB would be fine. For us on Puget Sound, I'd rather have the 9.8 to better deal with tides, currents, and the river our marina's on. I think an 8 with a low pitch prop properly tuned may well work just as well. I know that the 9.8 will push our 250 at 4.5 knots at 1400 RPM.

Edited by - on

Arlyn Stewart
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Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 03:44:19

An engine like this has been a long time coming and looks to be an excellent choice for all but those like David points out who sail in demanding conditions.

At roughly half the weight of an electric start Honda XLS it should do the job very nicely for most 250 owners. The weight difference makes it an easy mount for one person compared to a fairly difficult mount by two.

I'd not be concerned at all that it is manual start only. If one can't start one of these small motors, one is to frail to be sailing. My granddaughter could pull start our 8hp when she was 4 yrs old.

The single issue I might have with the design is that it uses thru the hub exhaust that has on some engines designed with it, greatly diminished reverse thrust. I suspect however that the amount of exhaust emitted from the six might not be near the problem as it was on some older 9.9 engines.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 05:09:27

I have a nissan 6hp 4 stroke but in the long shaft (not extra long). It came with the boat when I bought it. Power wise it is very adequate for lake sailing. Mine being a long shaft, it does not reach far enough into the water to power the 250 in larger waves. I'm correcting that with a Garelick motor mount I just bought on Craig's list. The Nissan is a one cylinder and sound surprisingly like a sewing machine as I idle out the marina. It will push the boat at hull speed although at higher RPM than a 9.8. Being a one cylinder it has some vibration at certain speeds, but not to the point of being annoying.

It is very nice in the spring and fall when I have to lift it on or off the transom or when storing in the basement.

Price wise, if I had it to do over, I would spend the extra money and go for the larger engine. Not that much more.

Edited by - on

pastmember
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 10:18:50

Hi Turk,
That motor was put on that boat because it was what Ed at Action Marine had on hand, new models were coming and he was getting rid of his old models. He would not normally put a long shaft motor on a boat. Why not stay pure and get one of the new Xlong motors?
Garelick mounts essentially go just slightly past horizontal in the down position, that is very little gain in depth for a lot of effort. Garhauer mounts drop a lot past horizontal, if you are trying to get your motor deeper in the water the Garhauer is a better choice.

Edited by - on

KD4AO
Navigator

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Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 10:21:37

Paul, if you get it, let us know how it works out.

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/09/2009 : 14:51:46

Like Dave we like the extra power for the Puget Sound area's strong tides. But, I must say a 59lb outboard would be a wonderful thing. Let's hope this starts a trend. Also, while I agree that it is important that a sailor be able to pull-start the engine (even an electric start when the battery is dead) it sure is sweet to just push the button.

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Turk
Admiral

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Response Posted - 04/10/2009 : 09:05:56

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by pastmember
 Hi Turk,
That motor was put on that boat because it was what Ed at Action Marine had on hand, new models were coming and he was getting rid of his old models. He would not normally put a long shaft motor on a boat. Why not stay pure and get one of the new Xlong motors?
Garelick mounts essentially go just slightly past horizontal in the down position, that is very little gain in depth for a lot of effort. Garhauer mounts drop a lot past horizontal, if you are trying to get your motor deeper in the water the Garhauer is a better choice.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ouch! I just bought the Garelick on Craig's list! Crap! After seeing David's mounting instructions on this forum, I can see your right, no improvement at all in the depth of the outboard. I guess I assumed that an outboard mount would go further than horizontal. There is not much room to mount the thing any lower as it would be in the water.

I didn't plan on buying another motor this year, guess it will have to wait till next.

Anyone interested in a Garelick motor mount? ($210 + shipping). Guess I'll put it up for sale. Damn!

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 04/10/2009 : 09:47:05

Turk,
check the model or range of drop before you chuck it.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 04/10/2009 : 10:47:23

Tom,
What OB were you planning on using with the Garelick?

Edited by - on

Turk
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Response Posted - 04/10/2009 : 11:10:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 Tom,
What OB were you planning on using with the Garelick?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have a 6 hp nissan 4 stroke. Long shaft not extra long.

Edited by - on

delliottg
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Response Posted - 04/10/2009 : 11:21:48

From looking at the mounting photos on my boat, it looks like you could get another 4-6" of depth by mounting the Garelick lower, closer to the water line. That would put you at roughly the same depth as my XLS (assuming your LS is about 20"). Of course you'd be in thinner fiberglass & no core for the upper mounting holes, but that's not insurmountable, just make a large mounting plate for the inside & outside to distribute the load, or grind & build up some fiberglass on the inside. I think you can also adjust the mounting pad, so you might be able to get another inch or two there as well.

If your Garelick is the same one as mine it has 9" of drop, if it's not, it has 15" of drop.

Edited by - delliottg on 04/10/2009 11:22:51

Turk
Admiral

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Response Posted - 04/10/2009 : 16:01:06

I also thought I might be able to use a wedge to tilt the mount down a bit. The correction could be made up in the motor adjustment. What do you think?

Edited by - on

delliottg
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Response Posted - 04/10/2009 : 16:17:31

Without seeing your engine, I'm not sure why you'd need to tilt it down? My Tohatsu sits pretty level on my mount, enough so that I never considered changing the angle during my install.

Edited by - on

Turk
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Response Posted - 04/10/2009 : 17:09:41

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 Without seeing your engine, I'm not sure why you'd need to tilt it down? My Tohatsu sits pretty level on my mount, enough so that I never considered changing the angle during my install.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The reason for the angle would be to lower the engine another couple inches. I'm worried that lowering the position of the mount to the transom may cause the engine to be subject to getting washed over in higher waves as I run with the wind.

I'm gonna talk to our outboard sponsor about an extension to my lower unit. If they are making a 25" version now (they weren't before) maybe they have the extension kit. That would solve the problem nicely.

I just talked to a friend here in Ohio that just bought the nissan 6hp 25" and it looks as if it is the exact same engine as mine.

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delliottg
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Response Posted - 04/10/2009 : 17:26:24

I sure hope Paul got his original question answered before Tom & I completely hijacked this thread away from him.

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piseas
Former Treasurer

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Response Posted - 04/10/2009 : 18:16:08

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Arlyn Stewart
 
I'd not be concerned at all that it is manual start only. If one can't start one of these small motors, one is to frail to be sailing. My granddaughter could pull start our 8hp when she was 4 yrs old.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Arlyn, I have same engine for my dinghy and love it except for manual start. I must be getting old cuz that pull start is killing my shoulder. And I don't have any granddaughters yet!

Steve A

Edited by - on

delliottg
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Response Posted - 04/10/2009 : 18:49:49

I can commisserate, before I had my rotator cuff rebuilt on my right shoulder, I had a very-very hard time pull starting the OB on my San Juan 21, and it was nearly impossible to get to it with my left. I learned to actually pull with my body & legs and just kept my arm straight. Kind of a hopping motion, squat down to get my hand on the pull starter, straighten out my arm, and simulaneously sort of stand up and rotate to the right. This worked great if the engine was warm, but not so much when it wasn't. Fortunately the OB was pretty well behaved, it would generally start on first pull if it was warm, 2nd or 3rd if not.

Now that my shoulder's in pretty good shape again, I make it a point to pull start the new Tohatsu every other time I start it over the winter. That way I remain confident that it'll pull start when I need it, like the other day when my battery was so low. I do like the electric start though, very nice.

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zebra50
Captain

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Response Posted - 04/15/2009 : 13:51:10

Last year I purchased the Tohatsu 9.8 extra long with electric start, remote control and love it. http://www.onlineoutboards.com/Tohatsu-9-8-hp-MFS9-8A3EPUL.html. Previously had a Nissan 8 but the shaft was short about 15. The new one is only 93.7lbs. There is a big difference in handling and ability of the boat to respond.

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delliottg
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Response Posted - 04/15/2009 : 14:08:04

Comparing the photos I took of my stern when installing my Tohatsu to yours, it looks like the transom on yours sits lower than mine. Are the transoms on the WB closer to the water than on a WK? Does anyone know? I'm assuming yours is a WB because of how close to the ground the boat is, on our WK, the waterline's about head height when on the trailer. We have to use a step ladder to get to the boat's ladder, yours looks like you could step up into it. I know a lot of this is simply because there's much less keel, so everything sits lower, but I'd be interested to compare actual transom heights.

I know there's about a 10" difference in interior space, but does that also show up in the cockpit height placement?

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zebra50
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Response Posted - 04/19/2009 : 09:09:54

David; Yes it is a WB but I have no idea what the difference in height on the trailer would be. It is significant, atleast the height for the keel. I am able to just climb into the cockpit via the ladder from the ground when on the trailer. The trade off is that the WK has more height in the cabin.

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essen48183
Navigator

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Response Posted - 04/27/2009 : 21:03:08

Jay,

where did you get that remote start/stop switch? That's cool.

To the rest of the thread,

I'm noticing that my boat came with (and most pictures I see on this thread and elsewhere on the forum have on them the) standard prop. They make these outboards for multiple apps. The only one that doesn't is that honda powerthrust- which comes standard with the large 4 bladed low pitch prop. Nissan has larger, 3 and 4 bladed lower pitch props for use in a heavy displacement style boats. I would bet a 6 hp with the proper prop will perform equally as good as an 8 or 10 horse with the stock jonboat prop.

For 6 hp Nissan/Tohatsu you probably want the 3 bladed 8.375inch dia hight thrust prop that is 6 pitch.

For my 9.8 Nissan I'm ordering either the 4 bladed 8.7inch 5 pitch High Thrust prop
or the 4 bladed 8.7inch 7 pitch High Thrust prop

here is the chart: http://www.nissanmarine.com/accessories/prop_chart.html

There are calculators out there that can help you determine proper prop for displacement hulls by the weight and hull speed and engine rpm.

Edited by - essen48183 on 04/27/2009 21:04:39

maha
Deckhand

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Response Posted - 07/28/2010 : 16:45:51

I just bought a new Tohatsu outboard motor with tiller:
2010 Tohatsu MFS9.8A3EFUL
9.8 HP four-stroke, 25" shaft, Electric Start, Tiller Handle
The tiller hits the gas tank compartment on it's starboard side. Is this why you bought the remote steering (to avoid the conflict of the tiller)?

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superbob
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USA
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Response Posted - 07/29/2010 : 07:38:19

Maha:

The outboard tiller hitting the fuel compartment is typical and why your able to tilt the handle up when steering with the motor is necessary in emergency situations or to navigate tight quarters. I'd never give up this ability in favor of remote controls.

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willy
Captain

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Response Posted - 08/15/2010 : 14:46:39

I just ordered the 4 bladed Prop for my Tohatsu 8...while the three bladed gets me through the Indian River Inlet, (Atlantic side of the DelMarVa Peninsula), it can be a bit scary against the incoming tide! I am really hoping the extra thrust will help. I have an idea it should still push the boat to hull speed although there may be a small loss in fuel economy. I'll report back after testing! Also...I have a fixed stainless motor mount that I wouldn't trade for the world. I can use both the motor and the boat tillers simultaneously when maneuvering in close quarters. I love Tohatsu's power start...

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jbkayaker
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Response Posted - 08/25/2010 : 08:36:13

I like the safety factor of having a little horsepower to spare with my two stroke 9.8 Hp. I can make decent progress directly into a 20+ mph wind with 2 foot waves on my inland lake. I think I could even tow another boat out of trouble in those conditions. On more open waters I wouldn't want a smaller engine.

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