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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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kayak for tender?

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cks
Navigator

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126 Posts

Initially Posted - 03/16/2009 : 20:57:37

anyone use a kayak to get to their boat? i'm moored and my launching service raised his rates again this season (some nerve during these times). he wants $650 for the season and last season, i figured i used him maybe 10 times amounting to about $60 a trip. i figure if i get a kayak, i can load it on top of my car and get to the boat and not worry about getting back in time before the launch service stops running at sundown. any thoughts/experiences to share?

Edited by - on

Voyager
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
5352 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2009 : 21:51:11

Yes -
I've used my 12.5 foot recreational kayak as a dink.
Two real tricky parts:
>> getting down the stern ladder into the kayak and
>> getting out of the kayak onto the ladder.

If you have a floating platform instead of a floating ball, it's a heck of a lot easier. I've used a 4ft x 8ft x 8" floating platform for this.

On a floating platform you can stabilize the kayak using a "paddle bridge" technique. In this move, you hold the paddle onto the rear of the cockpit coaming and the other end on the dock. Using this technique, put your feet in the kayak, with your rear on the dock. Hold tight, and slip your rear into the cockpit seat. You're in.

To get out of the kayak, draw your feet toward the seat, then holding the paddle tightly, lean forward a bit on the balls of your feet, push up your rear and slip it back onto the dock.

I teach the paddle bridge technique in my USPS Kayak Safety course, during the pool sessions.

Going directly from the kayak to the ladder, without a dock, requires incredible technique, as you have to prevent the kayak from rolling over while standing up in it, and at the same time holding the swinging ladder between two rolling boats.

You could rig a pair of lines hanging down from the port and starboard stern cleats, and somehow connect them to the bow and stern of the kayak. A pair of deck cleats on the kayak may help.

You will find in a kayak that the C-25's freeboard makes the top of the gunwales just incredibly high up, out of the water. Even if you stood up in the kayak (which I would not advise), you would be very challenged to climb up into the Catalina.

Edited by - on

sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2009 : 21:56:04

Have you ever kayaked? The spectacle's occur when entering and departing. I do use a kayak for cruising but have a twin hull 8' dingy which gives me a very low platform to enter the kayak and depart. Can you swim? Which kayak, a sit-on-top, or a slip-into, with floatation, a painter which you tie to the dock before you put on a PFD? Lot to think about and be safe. Have seen a canoe used but person had a lot of experience. Inflatable would be a choice and it can be stowed better for travel. Having to plan the return for the service and missing the sunset is not good. Hope you find a system that works.

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sweetcraft
Admiral

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USA
816 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2009 : 22:06:01

Lines attached to my kayak are at the pointy ends with a hole just large enough for the lines to enter and run back to the seat area, tied off where I can pull the line in up to the figure eight knot and use it for tieing to a dock or boat ladder. I don't have to chase the kayak when I enter the water unexpectedly. It is one of the best times for AFHV.

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Frank Law
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USA
159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2009 : 22:08:09

I have been using a 15' canoe for many years and have not landed in the drink yet..I did use a 13' sit inside kayak one time canoe is a lot easier.. I think a sit on top style kayak would work better

Frank Law
About Time 3519
sr,swk 1983

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2009 : 22:26:54

It might be easier with a "sit-on-top" kayak. I haven't tried this, but I have two sit-on-top Ocean (brand name) kayaks, and I suspect getting on and off from the swim ladder would be a lot easier than with a sit-inside kayak--you can put your butt down and swing your legs over (and the reverse). There are some inflatable sit-on-tops, too, which would give you an easy option for taking the kayak with you...

And then there are inflatable dinghies... much more stable getting on and off, and can carry some stuff and people (plural) to and from the boat. I blow up my Achilles roll-up with a foot pump--a 12V pump would make it even quicker and easier.

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2009 : 22:37:25

I use this double sit inside kayak that is open. My wife calls it a Canoeyak. We got it at Sports Authority with paddles and seats for $500.

What's good about this is it is easy to get in and out from the boat. I have a bow line and a stern line on it exactly the length to slip a loop over the cockpit winch. Then the kayak can't move forward, backward, or out. Just drop the lines on the winch and climb in your C25.

Pros:

It carries a great load.

It rides well with just one person.

You can carry it on your bow.

I've since upgraded to a $125 lightweight paddle.

We've never tipped it over.

Cons:

Don't try to tow it unless in the harbor in very calm conditions. Only tow a sit-on-top.

It's pretty slow compared to paddling a light, slender, $3000 fiberglass kayak.

Edited by - on

cks
Navigator

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126 Posts

Response Posted - 03/16/2009 : 23:20:31

i've been talking to a guy at the kayak shop who says he's used a kayak as well for his sailboat (although he did admit that a dinghy would be better). he recommends a sit in for two reasons: it's better in colder weather (i'm in the NE) and you worry less about your stuff getting wet as long as you have a waterproof bag. that being said, i was thinking about running a line from bow to stern and using it somehow to stabilize it as i got on and off the stern ladder. i'm really attracted by the light weight of the kayak (a sit-in weighs about 40 lbs). i'm also looking into the garhauer kayak carrier- i figure i can use the halyard to lift the kayak onto the boat and secure it off the rails using the carrier- provided they don't interfere with the jib sheets.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2009 : 00:56:55

I have been considering this enty/exit problem to add recreation opportunities on cruises. We have sit in kayaks, but I also have a clip on ladder with mounts on the port and starboard sides of the cockpit, making it easier to secure the kayak. I intend to experiment when the water warms up a bit. A sit on would be a piece of cake, but, like our inflatable dingy, they aren't much fun in a breeze.

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Stu Jackson C34
Admiral

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844 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2009 : 13:20:11

A kayak is fine for car topping, but given all the "in & out" issues, why not consider a small blow up tender? Before we bought our "big" 10'-2" Cadet Zodiac fastroller, we had an 8'-4" West Marine red hypalon plywood floor dinghy with a 1.2 hp Johnson single gear engine. This dinghy would row better than most because the oarlocks were the locked kind with pins, rather than the Zodiac with the slip plastic oarlocks, which are horrible, just horrible, for rowing. Yes, I know, inflatables aren't known for their rowing abilities, but if you're not far from the boat, for $650 you can get YEARS of service from a small inflatable, which you can stick on top of the car or even in the trunk. The ones with the slatted floors are even easier to blow up than the fixed floor (wood or aluminum) ones. That $650 (or less) on a small (new or used) inflatable boat that is a lot more stable than a kayak will turn out to be $65 per year, not per trip!

And with the right oarlocks you won't even need an engine. You could even get a kayak, too, and trail it behind the dinghy over to the boat and use the kayak for exploring and exercise.

Edited by - Stu Jackson C34 on 03/17/2009 13:21:51

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 03/17/2009 : 22:11:46

If you dont need a "real" dinghy, and its only for getting back and forth to boat, then get the least expensive bang for your buck. This is assuming you dont have far to go to your mooring. In this case a kayak is probably your best bet. Go rent some to test out if you can. Then check out Craigslist.org, as $$ sounds like an issue.
Steve A

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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2009 : 10:55:32

For just going back and forth to the mooring I agree with Stu - the inflatable will keep you dry and carry supplies and do the job. If you are in cold water then the issue of falling in is not trivial.

Is is just you or are others involved? Do you mind falling into the water on occasion? Are you young and coordinated? These are all considerations.

Our C250 has a transom cutout for the swim ladder and it it still tricky to step into our rigid dink. We have even added inflatable tubes to the dink for additional stability. Falling into the cold PNW waters is not something the Admiral or I wish to do. I wouldn't want to be trying it from a kayak but you are probably more graceful than I am.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2009 : 11:27:39

We also use an inflatable, an Avon with a rollup floor & inflatable keel. Getting on and off the boat is a bit tricky, but it's gotten easier with practice, and even our geriatric dog has it figured out now. She needs a bit of encouragement going up into the boat, but none going down into the inflatable. We also sail on Puget Sound, and as Randy said, falling in isn't a trivial problem when the water temp is 45°. If we were sailing in warmer climes (someday), I think a sit-on kayak could be fun, as it is, I gave away mine several years ago.

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Dave5041
Former Mainsheet Editor

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3758 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2009 : 12:58:24

We do have a Zodiac for when we want a real tender, so I am just looking at recreational issues. I agree that if you are just looking to get out to a mooring and aboard, an inflatable is probably best, but a sit-on is stable and can have reasonable load carring capacity with recreation as a plus. Multi-function and cost is often more important than "best".

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cks
Navigator

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126 Posts

Response Posted - 03/18/2009 : 20:13:14

thanks to all who've shared theri thoughts and advice

i've considered an inflatable, but i don't think that it'll be practical for those days that i just want to go out for a few hours- i single hand most of the time. i think that i'll find it to be too much of a hassle inflating and deflating the boat.

if i get a kayak, i'm definitely getting a wet suit for the colder days- in the summer, i may not mind getting a little wet :)

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2009 : 09:04:27

Forget the wetsuit - go whole hog and get a drysuit. You can wear yous horts under it, and it is MUCH warmer. Spoken from WW canoe experience.

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aeckhart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1709 Posts

Response Posted - 03/19/2009 : 10:15:56

Why deflate your zodiac? My 7 footer only weighs about 30 lbs. (wood slat floor). You can car-top it easily and it's easy to carry. I've been using mine to get to my mooring for about 10 years. The only drawback is getting used to rowing a flat bottomed boat. I now use an electric trolling motor. The battery adds an additonal lifing dimension but, I keep it on my water front all season anyway. A small two-wheeled cart has solved the problem though. An additonal plus is that it tows nicely (without the battery installed) and without the drag that many attribute to towing an inflatable.

Getting in and out of the inflatable was a little tricky until I fabricated a step which hangs over the side of the boat from the primary winch. I found it much easier than trying to get in using the ladder - the motor interferes with the getting the inflatable in close. West Marine carrys the step in aluminum for larger dollars. I made mine out of scrap lumber for the cost of a four foot length of line.

An inflatable will carry more - I've had five people in mine using the motor, and is more stable than any kayak.

Personnally I think you'd get more use out of the inflatable and generally like it better than a kayak. heck, for the cost of the kayak and a wet suit you could buy a nice Zodiac Cadet.

Edited by - aeckhart on 03/19/2009 10:29:54

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