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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

sails

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jlannutti
Navigator

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USA
102 Posts

Initially Posted - 01/07/2009 : 18:18:11

My 135 Genoa has chaffing and sun degradation on the port side at the clew. I took it to a local sailmaker who can clean the sail and make repairs for what seems to be a fair price however he worked hard trying to sell me both a new genny and main by going on and on about how cheaply made and light the sails that Catalina uses are. I've often thought that they are on the light side; however, given the way I use the boat they seem adequate. The breezes on the Delaware River near Philadelphia are pretty mild during the summer months when I use the boat the most. He also went on about how the UV protection on Catalina's genoas if terrible when they are new and non-existent after only a couple of years. He next suggested that if I do indeed keep the current sails (which I will at least for a while longer) that I should have him sew a Sunbrella strip on the leech for UV protection. My questions are:
1. If/When I do spring for new sails what weight do you suggest. I believe that Catalina uses 6 oz fabric.

2. In the meantime should I go for the Sunbrella. It seems to me that the Sunbrella fabric is so much heavier than the sail itself that sailing in light air will no longer be possible.

3. Is there an alternative to the Sunbrella to achieve UV protection without all that added weight.

Thanks for any direction you can give me. This site has been a great resource for me.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4285 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2009 : 20:13:52

Most will probably disagree with what I'm about to say but, I'd go for another sailmaker if I got that kind of service. I won't buy anything from someone that bad mouths their competition. It's my opinion (for it's worth) that if you have to resort to bad mouthing your competition you're not that confident in your product and/or you know it's not that good so you divert the buyers attention by bad mouthing the competitions product. A reputable dealer would spend the time pointing out the positive attributes of their products without beating up the competitions product.

My '89 has the original Catalina sails and while they are not in the best shape they are still sound and have not started coming apart at the seams.

All of the above is based on how I intrepreted what you said above.

Edited by - GaryB on 01/07/2009 20:14:58

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2009 : 20:56:26

What's the vintage of your boat and sails?

A sailmaker pointed out the same thing to me in about 2002, on a 5-year-old Rolly Tasker genoa, with an estimate of $525

to add a new strip. I declined, and I think "Voyager" is still using the same sail--the leach might be a bit discolored and some stitching might be loose on the Dacron cover... I'd let it go and wait for a new sail.

Sunbrella does add weight, and it also doesn't stretch as much as the Dacron sail, so it can cause some cupping. I've seen many Sunbrella strips with deteriorating stitching--I'm not sold on them as being better than UV-treated Dacron. As a stop-gap, you could spray some alcohol-based SPF-50 sunblock along the leach and foot... I've used it on bungees, and it helps.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2009 : 21:22:23

You could also just get a separate sail cover to hoist after you furl the sail. Eliminates the concern of the relatively "incompatible

" fabrics.

Edited by - on

bill bosworth
Navigator

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USA
172 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2009 : 21:46:18

I purchased a used 1995 c250 in 2000. The previous owner had a Sunbrella cover sewn onto the sail just before he sold the boat. When I first sailed the boat I was very disapointed in the performance of the boat, it was very poor going to wind. I concluded that the problem was the acrylic sail cover, so I took a seam ripper to it and removed the cover. They also used a spray adhesive so it was a messy job. The results were dramatic, the boat was able to point very well without the cover. I had a "jib sock" made by a local sailmaker and have been using one ever since. A jib sock is a flat pannel the lenght of the forestay about 14" wide with a zipper sewn into both long edges. As you hoist the sock with the unused jib halyard, you zip the cover closed over the sail. I usually wrap a few turns of line around the sock to keep it from flapping in a strong breeze. I had to replace the sock last year and obtained a new one from "Catalina Direct".
I recently received my christmas present, a new set of Catalina sails, a 110 and main. Can't wate till spring.

Bill c250wb Serendipity
on Kerr Lake, NC

Edited by - bill bosworth on 01/07/2009 21:51:11

OLarryR
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3387 Posts

Response Posted - 01/07/2009 : 23:04:58

Instead of Sunbrella, sailmakers can also use a strip of Dacron sail material sewn onto the sail.

As far as weight of the sail....well, I have posted past responses regarding quality of Dacron sails (rcmd do a search on past postings regarding "Dacron" and "Sails".

In regards to Dacron sails:
When you buy a sail, you are primarily buying sail cloth. All sail cloth comes from only a few places in the world and the primary manufacturers sell it in different grades. The weight alone does not quarantee a sail that will be more resilient to stretch since a cheaper sail cloth can actually be sold in a heavier weight. It has to do with the fibers, how they are woven, treated, etc. My suggestion if you really want to get into this ...which many do not....many just rely on the recommendations of others - there are two sources I rcmd you review if you want to get an education on the different grades of Dacron Sails, weight of the fabric, stretch characteristics, etc. Their websites have loads of info...but it takes some time to absorb the matl and then sort it out as far as what it all means. The bottom line is...what sail cloth and grade are they making their sails out of ? The 2 sources of info to get started:
http://www.macksails.com/sailclth.htm

http://challengesailcloth.com/cloth.htm

I am not necessarily recommending buying sails the way I did because it will wind up costing you more...but I wanted to buy sails locally and from a reputable sailmaker. I also did not go the "off the shelf" route - Quantum out of Annapolis came down to my boat on the Potomac River near Wash, DC and took measurements - The sails were custom made out of Challenge Sailcloth Dacron "High Aspect" Matl, 5.6 oz for both a new main and a 150% Furling Rig Genoa. High Aspect matl is a higher grade Dacron than what most sailmakers use...many utilize either Challenge High Modulus or Performance grades. My sails are now a year old. I just took them off and brought them to Quantum for an inspection which then extends the warranty period for another year.

Having a sailmaker take measurements off the boat is not necessary as many will tell you they bought them mail-order/off the shelf and fit fine. Having them take the measurements and then design/make them to those measurements and in a higher grade Dacron less prone to stretch will cost more and each sail cost me over $1000. Others that bought them off the shelf paid 10-35% less and have been happy with them regardless of what sail cloth they were made out of....so...this is a subject and decision that has many possibilities depending on ...your thoughts. Perhaps ...many right choices.

Edited by - OLarryR on 01/07/2009 23:06:38

jlannutti
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
102 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2009 : 05:41:50

Thanks to all for the input. "Gracie" is a 1998 WB and the sails are in pretty good shape with the exception of the one small area noted above. I've decided to nix the UV protection and use a sock. A quick internet search provided me with a handful of vendors with widely varying prices. I'll make a choice later as all have a pretty quick turn-around time. I'm having the one panel on the genoa replaced, a small area of stitching at the head reinforced and a cleaning...that should keep this sail in service for at least a few more years...hopefully longer.
Joe

Edited by - on

jlannutti
Navigator

Members Avatar

USA
102 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2009 : 05:44:46

Regarding the above post. By putting up with the very minor inconvenience of the sock I give up nothing in regard to sail shape and light wind performance.

Edited by - on

islandplanet
Deckhand

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USA
11 Posts

Response Posted - 01/09/2009 : 13:04:38

Your sailmaker might have been doing you a favor. What a lot of sailors don't realize is that service work is usually more of a moneymaker than selling new sails. Many sailmakers are happy to take your money and not point out that your money could be better spent on new sails. Production boat sails are typically built to a lower standard than what you get from a reputable sailmaker. In the business they are referred to as "delivery sails." Catalina sails are built to a price point just like any other boat manufacturer. In many cases the sail vendor won't put their own label on delivery sails.

Here's another way to look at it. Every sail has a service life. Let's say a new sail costs $1000 and will last 10 seasons (hypothetically). That's $100 per season. It you have a sail that is going to cost $400 to eke another season or two from it's a poor investment because your cost per season is more than double.

I know this may offend some of you but anyone who thinks a Dacron sail is good for decades is ignoring the fact that Dacron stretches and the shape is crappy. Sure they may go up and down and look OK but the performance of the boat suffers. It doesn't point and it heels too much. In terms of shape retention Dacron does not last as long a decent laminate sail. That's not to say you should run out and buy laminate sails but just keep in mind that Dacron sails don't last as long as many people think unless shape is unimportant.

Edited by - on

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