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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Aqua-Signal Series 25 Bow/Deck Combo Light

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lcharlot
Master Marine Consultant

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Antigua and Barbuda
1301 Posts

Initially Posted - 07/16/2008 : 20:41:17

Most of the Catalina 22's and 25's made after about 1982 came with the Aqua Signal 25 Combo Bow/Deck light. I have this on both Quiet Time and Magic, and have recently noticed that the 20 watt Deck light bulb has become hard to find - West Marine no longer carries it. FYI: This bulb carries a Sylvania Part Number 39425, or OSRAM P/N 64115. It is a 12v, 20watt, with a BA9S bayonet base. If you can even find one locally, the retail price can be anywhere from $5.99 to $12.99, with $9.99 being about average. The best price I found on-line is $3.99 from http://www.microlamp.com/osram.htm

NOTE: I have not yet placed an order since I am still trying to nail down exactly what they charge for shipping (it might be outrageous), but my point is it's worthwhile to shop around. I was told by a local electrical supply shop that these bulbs have been discontinued by Sylvania and they are now mostly coming from no-name Chinese suppliers with problematic quality. The BA9S style bayonet base was originally used mostly for automotive brake light and running light bulbs for european and british cars and motorcycles, and most halogen bulb applications have long since switched to the bi-pin style base you see in low voltage landscape lighting and desk lamp applications. Pretty soon BA9S 12 volt halogen bulbs might become "unobtanium" so I am going to buy 5 or 6 if the shipping cost is reasonable. I wonder if Aqua Signal has switched to the bi-pin style bulb on the deck lights they are selling nowadays?

Larry Charlot
Catalina 25WK/TR Mk. IV #5857 "Quiet Time"
Folsom Lake, CA

"You might get there faster in a powerboat, but in a sailboat, you're already there"

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 07/16/2008 : 21:26:47

My 1982 C-25 has the old style single white steaming light on a teak base, same as our 1975 C-22. At my next mast take-down, hopefully not til next year, I may replace it with a combo bow/deck light. Maybe a new design will be out by then. I lake-sail and not much after dark at that, so it;s not an urgent thing for us. Glad to see that there is another "crazy" person out there besides us who has both C-22 and C-25. LOL

Edited by - dmpilc on 07/16/2008 21:29:06

Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2008 : 07:08:45

I've been replacing my original lights as the bulb lamps go out. There are better technologies available now. I figure 24 years is a crazy long service light for any electrical part. So far I've replaced the forward running lights, stern light, anchor light and bow light. I'm starting on the interior and bought a batch of identical lights to replace everthing inside, but once I got one installed, I changed my mind, the new ones look cheap and flimsy, I want something that looks nice and throws a decent light. Do you know of a decent replacement?

Edited by - on

Ed Cassidy
Captain

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USA
365 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2008 : 09:17:58

I have a '79 C25 and I'm somewhat confused about my lighting. On the elctric panel, I have running lights, anchor, spreader, bow and cabin lights. What is the reason for bow and spreader lights? I only have three wires at the mast and I can't see that teh spreader circuit is even used. If you look at the C25 owner's documentation it explains what I am trying to describe exactly.
Thanks,
Ed
Ed

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Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2008 : 13:58:19

Spreader must have been an option when your boat was made, mine doesn't have it on the panel. Spreader lights are nice to provide light when you're at anchor or at the dock. The bow light is technically called the "steaming light", you are required to illuminate this light, along with your other running lights, when you are running under engine power at night, whether or not you are also using your sails. This USCG web page will help to explain legal requirement for navigation lighting.
http://uscgboating.org/safety/fedreqs/equ_nav.htm

Edited by - on

Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2008 : 16:54:37

My spreader light is a combination spreader/steamer light as it has a downward facing lens and a forward facing lens. In that scenario you would not need the separate bow light. One less light/circuit to deal with.

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Deric
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2008 : 20:34:07

I have a spreader light on the panel that is actually connected to a light in port side locker. Great place to have a light I think.

The bow light (steaming light) is the old style and blows out often.

I do like the new lights that are steaming deck light combos, and plan to replace them. Of course one has to make sure that there are enough wires in the mast to light the extra light in the combo light.

Deric

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 07/17/2008 : 21:24:36

If I'm reading the CG site properly if I'm under power I should have the masthead light and the other running lights on since I'm less than 39.4 feet (Fig. 2), correct? What confuses me is that Fig. 1 displays the forward facing white 225 degree light at the masthead and not at mid-mast like our steaming light? What's the steaming light for on our boats? Can we run either Fig. 1 or Fig. 2?

Also, can we legally have the steaming light AND deck light on while motoring? With my flying background we always lit up the plane with whatever we could (nav lights, strobes, landing lights, wing ice lights, etc...) Seems like that would be wise when near the marina or while in the channel.

Edited by - GaryB on 07/17/2008 21:33:17

redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 07:39:26

I'll take a stab at this one.....

Legislative law, case law, and ummmm one other one.

The letter of the laws would have you light up the whole boat.

What you would like is a green/red on the front and an all around on the back. If you turned on an all around on the back you would be nightblinded from the light. The steaming light is also hard on your night vision.

Most sailboats run with the front red/green and the back white (180) and the topmast light (360).

The steaming light is sometimes called the masthead light so I try to use the terminology topmast for the light at the top of the mast. Many call it the anchor light. I call the steaming light the light that is mid-mast.

Personally I think the Steaming light was left to help you with being seen if your topmast light is out. I look at it as a backup to the topmast. If your were night sailing and turned on the steaming light it would light up the sails, and night blind you. If you were under power then it would not be a problem. I'm sure it would also assist if your sails were fouled.

The opinions expressed here are not the opinions of the USCG.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 08:41:31

Basically, if you show any white light forward of the beam, under the rules, you're a powerboat (or sailboat under power)--whether that white is an all-around at the masthead or a steaming light. Under sail only, the only white should be astern (135 deg. or whatever the number is)--otherwise you give up your rights. A deck light could be interpreted as a steaming light... and perhaps more importantly under way, will greatly diminish your night vision.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 08:42:55

I think I will run with the red/green, the white backlight, and both the mmasthead(top most) light and the steaming light on. I did this a couple of weeks ago and the steaming light(mid-mast) left a nice soft glow on my headsail.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 08:49:36

Your masthead all-around white light is your anchor light. Under power, you can use it instead of (but not in addition to) the stern and steaming lights, but there are many opinions that a light that high might not seen at close range by skippers under biminis, hardtops, dodgers, etc. It's purpose is to be used at anchor.

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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 08:59:36

[url="http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/fedreqs/equ_nav.htm"]Federal Requirements and Safety Tips for Recreational Boats[/url]

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redeye
Master Marine Consultant

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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 09:00:39

Dave said: Under sail only, the only white should be astern (with the bow lights )

That was also my feeling, but local interpretation seems to be they are sailing with the topmast on also. I had felt that this would indicate I was under power. If I was sailing I would run the frward and aft lights only, but I would often take a lot of flack from others simply because "everybody else was doing it".

Thanks for pointing that out. I see you point for keeping your rights as a sailboat sailing. A steaming light or any light forward of beam would indicate you are under power.

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redeye
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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 09:06:12

Well I think Don has pretty much "Shown us the Light" :)

Hard to argue with the feds!

regards.ray

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 09:13:51

My original question stated "under power" "while motoring".

If you use the steaming (mid-mast) light and the stern light would that be legal since the steaming light is at mid-mast? In Fig. 1 it's displayed at the top of the mast.

I can see using the light at the top of the mast (anchor light) while motoring (Fig. 2) and the red/green bow lights if you cover the stern light.

In my opinion it would be safer to use the masthead light AND the stern light while motoring so that if someone is under a bimini and couldn't see the masthead light they could see the stern light.

The boats I saw on Galveston Bay a couple of weeks ago were displaying masthead,stern,red/green, and some were also displaying the steaming light all at the same time. Even with all of these on some were not that visible on a dark night.

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redeye
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3476 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 09:36:22

I have never understood the current interpretation, and I agree with Dave. They are asking us to use the anchor light for navigation. If I saw an anchor light I always wanted to assume the sailboat was at anchor and not moving.

But the regs are clearly shown in the image... a picture is most certainly worth a whole bunch of my words!

I've always wanted to run a topping lift with a flag halyard so I could run a battery powered light up the topping lift.

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Sloop Smitten
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1181 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 09:42:00

If I was approaching this boat from the stern I do not see how I would tell if it is anchored or underway.

In any event, you should not have more then one white light visible from any angle. As you can see in the picture below, when the boat is using a stern light, the masthead light is only about 225 degrees. If it uses his anchor light as a steaming light he should extinguish his stern light.

If I am approaching a vessel that has two white lights visible, at different heights, I assume it is a freighter or something along that size.

Edited by - Sloop Smitten on 07/18/2008 10:34:04

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 09:50:47

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 ...What confuses me is that Fig. 1 displays the forward facing white 225 degree light at the masthead and not at mid-mast like our steaming light? What's the steaming light for on our boats? Can we run either Fig. 1 or Fig. 2?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Both the Figure 1 and Figure 2 boats are showing a single white light from any angle. The 225 light can be at the masthead or at mid-mast--under power it should be on, and under sail, off (with just the 135 astern).

The rules for 39'+ and vessels with fishing line out allow for multiple white lights visible across 225 deg. forward, but only one white light visible across 135 degrees astern (where the red/green aren't visible). I see no rule under which two whites should be visible from astern, but what the hell... at worst you'll be taken for two boats.

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 07/18/2008 09:52:21

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 09:54:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Sloop Smitten
 If I was approaching this boat from the stern I do not see how I would tell if it is anchored or underway.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Doesn't matter--you're burdened either way.

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 09:56:18

Don't get me wrong, I agree with Dave also! An anchor light should be an anchor light not a anchor/sometimes nav light.

Does anyone else see what I'm seeing in that it looks like with our boats we could use either Fig 1 or Fig 2 if motoring as long as you block off the stern light if using Fig 2's setup? Do our boats have an illegal light setup if using the steaming (mid-mast) light since it's not at the top of the mast as marked in Fig. 1? Have the Reg's changed since our boats were manufactures and we're grand-fathered into the old setup?

Under sail alone my interpretation was the same as Ray's red/green and the stern light only but I see people on the bay all the time with the anchor light on while sailing.

Maybe it's just a lack of understanding the Reg's on most people's part. After discussing this one subject and reading the Reg's it seems like they've made a simple rule more complicated than it needs to be because of the various size boats listed and the different light displays possible for each. Why not make it less than 65.5 feet is one way and everything else is different.

OBVIOUSLY OTHERS HAVE POSTED (CLEARING UP SOME OF MY QUESTIONS) WHILE I WAS TYPING MY RAMBLING RESPONSE

Edited by - GaryB on 07/18/2008 10:02:41

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 10:06:10

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 Does anyone else see what I'm seeing in that it looks like with our boats we could use either Fig 1 or Fig 2 id motoring? Do our boats have an illegal light setup if using the steaming (mid-mast) light since it's not at the top of the mast as marked in Fig. 1?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I believe the issue is what light is visible from what direction--not how high it is. It seems you would be "illegal" if you had your all-around and your stern light on together (two whites astern) or your all-around and steaming light on together (looking like a bigger vessel than you are to boats ahead). If you have sails up with the engine running, it might be better to use the masthead "anchor" light and leave the stern and steaming lights off, since the anchor light will not be obscured by a sail from any direction--that is if you have separate switches for the stern and running (red-green) lights.

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Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 10:09:48

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by GaryB
 OBVIOUSLY OTHERS HAVE POSTED (CLEARING UP SOME OF MY QUESTIONS) WHILE I WAS TYPING MY RAMBLING RESPONSE

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Maybe we should have a teleconference. Then we'd all talk at once...

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 10:55:41

Actually, that's not a bad idea! It would sure save a lot of typing and we could cover more subjects quicker.

Let's do it!

Edited by - GaryB on 07/18/2008 10:56:34

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 11:07:12

Ya, but it'd be harder for people to participate when they're supposedly working!

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GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 07/18/2008 : 11:35:54

It could be a problem! It might also be hard to get a word in edge-wise on some of our more heated subjects.

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