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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

General Sailing Forum

Johnson 9.9 Sailmaster

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Don White
Deckhand

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3 Posts

Initially Posted - 06/18/2008 : 13:36:18

Recently purchased C25 with 9.9 Sailmaster. Didn't pay enough attention on sea trial. Anyway it starts fine and runs fine up to maybe 1/3 throttle. Beyond that it starts to smoke (oil I think). I am pretty sure it will not come up to full speed (seems to miss some also). When I raise it brownish oily water drains out. Do these symptoms suggest any solutions? According to a receipt that was in the documentation the impeller peplaced recently and lower end lubed. Thanks for any help you may provide.

Regards, Don

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 15:03:22

brownish oily water draining out is normal on this old engine. I would replace the fuel and make sure the fuel/oil mixture is 100% correct in the new batch. I would remove, clean, and re-gap the spark plugs to spec.

Those engines usually have large props with very low pitch, they are meant to run at high RPM and deliver very little thrust.

If this is not the case, it might be that you have the wrong prop.

Tohatsu 9.8 hp 4 stroke XL shaft electric start outboard is only $1875 from Online Outboards, no tax, no shipping. Runs great, 15 MPG under power, quiet and reliable power when you need it.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 15:10:27

Jim,

Does that engine come with an alternator? Up here I priced a honda 9.9 electric start with alternator and had a heart attack at the price (nearly $4000).

Does anyone live nearish to the CDN border that would be willing to accept delivery on an outboard? I'm sure duties at the border would be less than the difference in price on an engine.

Edited by - on

dmpilc
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4593 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 17:51:51

The Tohatsu 9.8 is the same engine as my Nisan 9.8, and with electric start it does have an alternator. I love my nissan, also from Online Outboards (located here in Tennessee)!!

Edited by - on

JimB517
Past Commodore

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USA
3285 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 18:06:26

Yes, it does and I basically never need shore power now. Very nice!

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 18:35:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by JimB517
 brownish oily water draining out is normal on this old engine.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">...HUH?? Oily water coming out of the cooling system means oil is migrating from the combustion chamber to the cooling channels, which suggests a blown head gasket at best (repairable), and at worst, corrosion between the cooling channels and the cylinder that's beyond repair. Either condition would explain an inability to run properly--you're probably losing compression that is necessary at higher RPMs, and might be getting cooling water in the combustion chamber.

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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 18:36:50

Don,
I had a Sailmaster 8 which smoked as you said yours does. I did as the other guys have suggested, changed to new plugs, checked my oil/gas ratios and was able to get it to smoke less, but not stop completely. As far as not being able to run up to speed, that sounds like possibly a carburetor problem. Oh, and mine leaked a bit of brownish water too, I don't think it's anything to worry about overly much.

(Edit after reading Dave's post) Mine leaked a small amount from the exhaust not the cooling water port, that I always associated with un-combusted oil from the pre-mix, the amount was very little, my two stroke Mercury on my San Juan did this as well. Bear in mind that I'm not a mechanic, it could very well be that this isn't normal, but in my experience (admittedly limited to only four outboard engines) it has been.

The smoke was one of the reasons we decided to replace it with a Tohatsu 9.8 like the other guys are talking about. I was able to sell the Sailmaster for twice what I thought it was worth on Craigslist if that helps any. I will say that it was a very reliable engine though, started every time, but it was pull start which Rita had a hard time doing. The new Tohatsu is electric (and pull if necessary), has a pretty good sized alternator, bigger than the Johnson's, I expect great things out of it.

Oh, and Chris (Prospector), I live relatively close to the border, but I don't think proximity to Vancouver helps you very much. If it does, let me know, I'd be happy to take delivery for you.

Edited by - delliottg on 06/18/2008 18:45:56

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 21:26:24

Horrid brown oily water came out of my sailmaster often, it also smoked a lot, still does and is 26 years old.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 06/18/2008 : 22:09:22

OK Frank... Now we understand your lake.

Edited by - on

Prospector
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
3159 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 06:32:58

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 Don,

Oh, and Chris (Prospector), I live relatively close to the border, but I don't think proximity to Vancouver helps you very much. If it does, let me know, I'd be happy to take delivery for you.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Would you be willing to move to someplace along the south shore of the great lakes? I would find that most helpful.

Incidentally, I wonder how customs would handle it if I were to put a new engine on the boat and sail home with it. If your vehicle breaks down, you can have the repair done, and return home without paying duty on the parts. The argument could (likely) be made that your engine broke down, and you had to have a new one put on the boat as a repair before sailing home thus avoiding duties on the outboard...

I wonder if this would work.

Edited by - on

ClamBeach
Master Marine Consultant

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3072 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 09:01:52

"HUH?? Oily water coming out of the cooling system means oil is migrating from the combustion chamber to the cooling channels"

The old sailmasters are 2-stroke engines. Oil and 'mung' in exhaust = normal.

Edited by - on

Stardog
Captain

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USA
319 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 09:37:26

If it runs okay at low RPM but not at high RPM it would suggest that the fuel is old and weak, or mixed wrong. I know folks have already said these things, but I would get very specific about troubleshooting- make sure you know which port is exhuast and which is cooling and watch carefully to determine if there is nasty stuff coming from your cooling outlet. If so, you'll want to either tear it down and replace the gaskets or have someone do it for you.

It could also be a weak spark, caused by magneto wearing out, or worn sparkplugs, or even the wrong sparkplugs. replace the sparkplugs with new ones, properly gapped, make sure they are the right ones or you'll have a hard time eliminating this as a problem.

If it's not leaking oil and the plugs are correct, it's time to start looking at the magneto. If you don't have a way to measure it, have a shop check it out.

Edited by - on

farrison
Navigator

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USA
166 Posts

Response Posted - 06/19/2008 : 10:41:25

Don;

I would agree with changing the plugs with new ones, they're pretty cheap and make sure they are both firing. Also, if it runs fine at low RPM, but poorly at higher, then it might be the carb. These carbs have an idle jet and a high speed jet. The engine gets it's fuel through the idle speed circuit at low RPM, but needs the high speed circuit to feed it as you ask for more power.

As gas goes bad over the winter/life, it turns to jelly or harder stuff called shellac. This "shellac" plugs little holes and coats the jet needles and orifices and screws up (restricts)the fuel flow. Carb cleaner might help a little, but taking it in for a cleaning/tune-up would be better. You might also look for a fuel filter between the fuel line connection and the carb, my Merc has one. Partially plugged fuel filter could also restrict the flow and bad gas can accumulate here also.

Also, as stated above, make sure the fuel/oil mix is right and the oil is a good quality two-stroke oil. Too much oil will smoke (obviously) and cheap stuff won't atomize and burn as well.

Us two-strokers need to keep our oil burners as environmentally PC as possible.

Paul
1984 15 hp Mercury two-stroke (starts on the first pull, runs like a top)

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