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T-Boned by a German Flagged Vessel while at anchor

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redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Initially Posted - 04/09/2008 : 08:17:10

OK, so it finally happened. My wife and I left the marina after our canvas guy finally finished our new dodger and bimini and went out to the anchorage to get our "sea legs" back. We were in the same spot for almost two weeks when a German flagged BendyToy Oceanis 40 came in and dropped a hook right on top of me. I had a conversation with the chap and he picked up and moved 3 times. Each time he was still too close based on the tidal current and the wind and how if they oppose boats go in very different directions.

Sure enough, at 17:30 I am heading back to Lysistrata after taking a shower and I see the German in his dink. He says, "hey - you know that boat that you were anchored next to and were unconcerned about?" I said yes... "You got very close." "Did I hit it?" "No""OK" Optical illusions from one vessel to another sometimes makes objects appear much closer than they really are.

In any event, I raced out of the marina only to see the BendyToy on my STARBOARD side.... Mind you, when pointing North, he was anchored on my PORT quarter. Something is very wrong.... I boarded my vessel to hear the German shout, "we didn't touch!" MY ASS! My Stanchions are bent and the upper lifelines on the starboard and port sides are no longer attached. I start the engine for safety reasons and start to evaluate. Less than a minute later I see the BendyToy heading straight for my Port quarter. The german fellow races to his bow to fend off - as if - and is rudely thrown onto my decks while he is holding on for dear life to his anchor chain.

He regains his balance and gets back onto his vessel and agrees to move. Flips his dink in the process as it was stuck behind my stern. Moves and things start to settle down.

Damage assessment: 6 stanchions bent, fortunately no fiberglass damage at the bases except for one spot. One worn aluminum toerail worn down from his chainplate striking it. Aluminum doesn't bend or dent. Upper and lower lifelines twisted...

I hail my good friends the Coasties on 16 and request they switch to two two. They comply and then I request the proper proceedure to follow when struck by a foreign flagged vessel.

All I can say is that the coasties were awesome as was Florida Fish and Wildlife. I had 4 coast guard stations calling my cell phone for the next 3 hours making sure the German hadn't fled the scene, etc... Unbelieveably professional... EXCEPT, when they asked for the spelling of my vessel's name and I replied with "Lima, Yankee, Sierra, India, Sierra, Tango, Romeo, Alpha, tango, Alpha." And the petty officer says, "Uh, can you spell that for me again?"

Back at a dock - guess the islands were just not meant to be this year.

Sten

DPO C25 #3220 "Zephyr", SR, FK
SV Lysistrata - C&C 39 - St. Augustine FL for flipping ever!!!!

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2008 : 09:20:35

I never did trust people in big Bendytoys or Hunters! Probably a 40' "first boat."

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Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5895 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2008 : 10:31:07

I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune, Sten, and hope it only represents a minor delay in your plans. What is your destination?

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2008 : 11:06:32

So who's going to pay for the damage? How does this work when a foreign vessels damages yours? I can't believe that EVERYONE in the world has insurance.

Hit and runs must be pretty common in the boat world. I bet the coasties would've had a field day with the Germans if they would've fled. Good to know that in such cases the procedure is to call in the coasties, I had no idea. What about on a lake, police?

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 04/09/2008 11:07:07

Renzo
Admiral

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USA
621 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2008 : 11:32:43

Sten, What a bummer! Glad it wasn't worse. You showed tremendous restraint in your handeling of the situation and in your posting on the forum. It must have been a great temptation to sprinkle a liberal amount of #*@&%8##'s in your acount of the events and discription of the offending boater.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2008 : 12:51:28

Sorry to hear about the damage to your boat. Guess I don't understand the relevance of whether it is a Beneteau or Hunter or whatever that did the damage.

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stampeder
Master Marine Consultant

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1608 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2008 : 13:38:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So who's going to pay for the damage? How does this work when a foreign vessels damages yours? I can't believe that EVERYONE in the world has insurance.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">The reason for obtaining CG and Customs clearance when entering US (or CDN) waters is largely for this type of event. That German vessel will be required to keep the CG apprised of his movements and will not be allowed to leave US waters until matters of insurance and legals have been satisfied.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Guess I don't understand the relevance of whether it is a Beneteau or Hunter or whatever that did the damage.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I defend the right to defend my self appointed moral superiority regardless of the indefensibility of my position, because it's just plain fun to believe that we Catalina Types made a better choice.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2008 : 14:06:02

Randy,
The vessels make is probably not relevant except for the fact that in my experience these vessels are well advertised and are generally purchased by folks who lack experience and/or the necessary gear. Catalina owners too. Dave is right - a "first boat." (Patrick Childress circumnavigated on a C27 - he would not do it again - but his state of mind and experience separates him from most catalina owners. In my experience there are more owners than captains). Valiants, Morris, Pacific SeaCraft, and the like always seem to be operated by more experienced and savvy sailors. Sorry, but this is true and that is the general consensus amongst the cruisers we hang with. (I've seen 35 foot bendytoys with only 15 feet of chain - there you have it.) This would probably explain why I hang here from time to time and hope that all C25 and C250 owners know what to do such that I am not embarrassed when my wife tells someone we went from a C25 to a C&C39.

Renzo - Yes, I did show restraint and that is basically the only thing you can do under the circumstances. Calm, cool and collected will always work better. I was congratulated by my fellow cruisers (who heard all of my vhf transmissions) for my professionalism and cool head. It must have been a slow day on the hook 'cuz everyone was listening. I met some new friends as a result.

Steve B. YES, anytime there is a collision with another vessel you must report it to the Coasties. Note: I moved to 22 before even describing the situation - it was not a mayDay nor a Pan Pan. Coasties in turn document the incident and refer it to the state authorities. On a lake I suspect it would be marine patrol if available or the police.

Mr. Milby C&C35 - Nice boat... We were going to hit the Bahamas and then ride the Gulf Stream up the coast to NYC. Now we have at least two weeks here and we paid for a month at the dock, so we have decided that the hurricane window will be very close if we don't start the northerly migration. Next year we plan on finding a hurricane hole in South America provided our cruising kitty holds out.

The Florida FWC officers were as mentioned AWESOME and all of the paperwork has been filed. They boarded the German vessel but found that there was no criminal wrongdoing so it is essentially a civil and maritime law matter. The German fellow was reluctant to accept responsibility and even tried to convince me to reuse the lifelines... Not gonna happen. We do have his contact info and he has contacted us since his departure. He went to Savannah to pick up his wife and then he is off to Norfolk where he will depart from for his journey back to Germany. We pray he will pay, but I have a Maritime lawyer standing by if needed.

Coasties at station Ponce Inlet stated, "Oh yeah, we know this guy - he hailed us the other day to find out where the grocery store was!" I thought that was odd until my fellow cruisers explained that in other countries it is common practice to hail the Coasties for just about anything. "Uh Coasties, we're out of shaved ice and pretzels, can you guys bring us some?"

Anyhow, the good news is that the rubrail did it's job and there is no hull damage. My new "friend" Franz did not fall overboard and wasn't crushed between the two boats, and he did not foul my anchor such that we were locked together. It could have been so much worse. We are struggling to find 3 good estimates such that we can get the work done. We aren't gonna try to "stick it to him" 'cuz that just isn't right, but we are not seaworthy for true offshore work right now obviously...

sten

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2008 : 14:54:03

Sten, I too am blown away by your story. I ask myself how I would have reacted. Probably not as professionally as you did. I commend you.
If this guy has no insurance, will they confiscate his boat?
Good luck. Sorry this happened to you.
Steve A

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 04/09/2008 : 15:15:57

Thanks Steve A. The important thing to remember is that this is basically like a fender bender. The guy who is screaming in the intersection does nothing for himself when the cops arrive. In this case and in all cases such as this, verify you are not taking on water, turn the GPS on so you can give your coordinates and hit the Coasties FIRST. Prepare mentally for what your transmissions will sound like and then just calmly go about it. It's just a conversation. There have been quite a few VHF threads here which provided some of the basic radio skills and I encourage everyone to practice making calls well before they are needed. Your ability to communicate says a lot about you and your experience. Fortunately after so many years this stuff kinda is second nature and I really don't think about it. Plus, I like Coasties - I can talk to them all day long. BTW - one Petty Officer was pretty upset for me (on the phone of course). He has a Hunter 24 - I swear I did not say anything - and was going on and on about how pissed off he would have been in the same situation. They (our respective boats) are our babies, but they are only possessions. If I had to report a fatality as a result of this incident - that would have been VERY sad, and we were damn close to that for a very long 42 seconds. Everything else seems minor by comparison.

Unsure if they will confiscate the vessel - but just in case, any offers on a 1998 BendyToy Oceanis 40'? "I've got $4.00 from the gentleman in the back with the wife beater. $6.00 from the gentleman here with confederate flag and the missing teeth. Do I hear $8.00? Going once, twice - sold to the HillBilly. Welcome to the anchorage!"

Sten OUT!

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2008 : 12:03:40

Sten,

He may think that once he's back in Germany he could simply ignore the whole incident. However he should be aware that as soon as he steps back in the United States (by boat, plane or other), he will be arrested at the border for a hit and run. This should motivate him to pay.

Edited by - on

GaryB
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
4303 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2008 : 21:12:09

Ya know, the thing I don't understand is why some people feel like they just have to anchor as close to the next person as possible. I've had similar situations more than once where there is a wide open area to anchor and some idiot feels he has to anchor so close that there is a distinct possibility that the boats could hit. If the other person moved 50' - 100' farther away everyone could enjoy their time without having to keep one eye on the other persons boat to make sure they don't hit. In my situations there was no reason to be so close together. It didn't make any difference in getting to shore or any other area. I sometimes wonder if they're afraid of being alone!

It also seems that these are the same people that have to have the radio blasting away at full volume and talk so loud that everyone within a 1/2 mile can hear them yammering on. Hey looka a me!!!

In Sten's case above, why would you bother wasting your time and energy to pull up your anchor and then move so little that you were still too close. If I were to anchor too close to someone (which I would never do) and they came up and asked me to move I would make sure that I moved far enough so as not to be even remotely close to them. I wouldn't want to be embarrassed that they had to come over a second time to ask me to move again.

Of course, there are a lot of people who's world revolves around themselves and they don't care about anything or anyone but themselves.

I also have to commend Sten for his calmness. I'd be the guy standing in the middle of the intersection screaming (at least until the cops arrived) if I had asked someone to move and they only moved a small amount and then their boat hit mine. Especially when they looked me in the face and flat out lied about what happened!

I'll get off my soap box now and go back to my hole!

Edited by - GaryB on 04/10/2008 21:15:54

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/10/2008 : 21:36:37

Top 10 reasons people anchor too close:

10. They think you know where the best holding ground is.

9. They lost their dinghy on the way.

8. They don't want Bayliners on both sides of them.

7. They hope your insurance will take care of the gouges they got in their hull from hitting docks.

6. They noticed the grill on your sternrail.

5. It's like church, which always fills up back-to-front.

4. They figure maybe you'll have some good tunes.

3. They want to leave the rest of the anchorage open to bomb around on their PWCs.

2. They're running out of beer.

...and last but certainly not least...

1. They hope you'll leave your curtains open and cabin lights on.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2008 : 07:46:27

Quote" 1. They hope you'll leave your curtains open and cabin lights on."

Ah, that's what i get for leaving my wife's riding crop and comfy cuffs hanging around!

In defense of my German "friend" - there are only a few places where I have seen this happen. Charleston and St. Augustine have very strong tidal currents which do funny things to boats. I had 125 feet of manly 3/8th chain attached to a 35 CQR in 13.5 feet of water at low tide. Tidal range for the day was 5 feet meaning that at high tide I was only at a 6 to one - which is fine unless it is ablowin... When the tide opposes the wind, boats do not all swing the same way. I watched a brand new Valiant 50 hunt horribly for several hours - If you have anchored a C25 you probably know what hunting is, your boat just wants to go sailing in 25 knots of wind and will do her best to present her beam to the wind such that she frees the anchor and can go. My "friend" had never seen such conditions before and was unprepared for what happened. What was stupid of him was that he saw the winds pipe up and saw my boat and his start hunting around - THAT IS NOT THE TIME TO LEAVE YOUR VESSEL.

I have also seen this happen in really calm flat water when there is no wind and the boats just wanna get cozy with each other. Usually this is at night.

Our C25 ran into a beautiful Hans Christian in Block(head) Island at 23:30 a couple of summers ago. My wife and I were watching the news when I decided to peek out the companionway. Where was the dink? When your dinghy is running along side of you - you are dragging. We put clothing and foulies on quickly, but it was too late. We bumped into the HC. The Captain and his wife were very calm, turned their deck lights on, put out bumpers, and assisted us get things settled out. We had shackled extra chain on, and even with 70 feet of chain and a lot of scope we still dragged anchor. I was forced to hand the rode to them for retrieval the following morning. There were some scratches in his rubrail, but he was so cool about it. "Ah, nothing a little sandpaper won't take care of." He was on a mooring ball and clearly could have been upset - but what good would that do? We picked up a mooring ball - if you ever go to Blockhead Island, do not anchor unless you have all chain - and in the morning gave him a huge bottle of rum as our thanks for being so cool.

You already feel like a fool for running into someone - no need to add further insult to injury by yelling your head off no matter what the temptation. My wife and I have a philosophy out here in the "cruising world." Pay it forward, help someone else, be kind. You never know... That newbie sailor might trade in that BendyToy, buy a proper yacht and be anchored next to you in Honduras someday!

sten

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2008 : 08:57:39

Hmmmmm... Sten: You anchored in the mooring field?? ...or did the wind come out of the north and pull you into the 40-50' water, through the channel, and then into the mooring field? I've found the holding in Great Salt Pond to be good, but I avoid summer weekends when you can practically walk deck-to-deck to shore and people get other people's rodes wrapped around their keels. (Of course, now I can anchor in the 4-5' area--even the trawlers don't go there.)

Edited by - Dave Bristle on 04/11/2008 08:58:50

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2008 : 10:30:13

No we anchored due south where everyone else was and there are some private moorings on that side sorta in the middle. Do I have that right? Isn't the entrance to Great Salt Pond from the south? We came in and turned to port and dropped a hook. We were there for nearly a week before this happened. I believe the wind blew us north into the private balls. Not the harbormasters balls. We were anchored in nearly 30 feet of wawa though. The holding was good until it started blowing snot and then even 70 feet of chain and 135 feet of rode out on a danforth 22 lb. wasn't enough to hold us. We invested in the SailRite riding sail kit shortly thereafter. C25's when hunting present the beam to the wind and off we went. It reset just before impact and the Hans christian tried to help us haul it back in the following day using his windlass. Wouldn't budge for nothing. My wife and I had to brake out the hook manually from the dink. Tough day!

BTW - too many Yankees fans, too many boats, and those "Coffee on Board" guys woke us up every morning. We retreated to the quiet and peacefulness of Montauk and had a great time until Hurricane Ernesto blew in and rocked our world for awhile. 45 knots on a C25 with two hooks down held us proper, but it wasn't fun...

sten

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/11/2008 : 12:26:52

The entrance to the pond is on the west side of the island, and you turned toward the north side of the pond, where you're supposed to anchor. There are some markers for restricted areas over there (NW and NE). If you drag southward, you'll get into deeper water (including a 50' hole) into a cable area, and then to the mooring fields S. of the channel that goes SE from the entrance. Maybe you finally "held" when you hooked the cable that runs right along the mooring field.

Edited by - on

redviking
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
1771 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2008 : 07:47:36

Knew about the cable - ok got my bearings now - you are correct. It's been awhile and a lot of anchorages since then. There are a few private balls on that side and the water is deep and in spots runs all the way up on shore. We might try it again with Lysistrata as we have been anchoring in far worse conditions, but I still advise picking up a ball in Block if it is gonna blow anything at all and you are uncertain of your ground tackle. We had read about all of the issues, poor anchorage, in some cruising guides. But with all that chain and a little C25 BRAVADO we didn't care.

Update on repairs. 1st quote came in at $4,000 not including the $600 for dockage. Will take 2-3 weeks more to finish. OUCH!

sten

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 04/12/2008 : 11:41:31

Whew! That's a chunk of change! Hope it goes quickly for you.

Moorings at Block are certainly preferable, but for most of the summer you'll have to arrive early to catch one as somebody is leaving. For anchoring, if you go toward the SE end of the pond, there's an area with around 15-20' of water. It's a short dinghy ride to a little beach on that side, and then a short walk across the road to a nice, relatively secluded ocean beach with nice swell on the east side of the island. That gives you maximum fetch in a NW breeze, but it's relatively protected from the prevailing SW breezes and easterly storm winds. If you post your plans here--I might be able to look for you on the pond.

Edited by - on

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