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 Hard Link v 4.0		  New Topic  Topic Locked
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britinusa
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USA
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Response Posted - 10/31/2007 :  19:31:42  Show Profile  Visit britinusa's Homepage
Interesting, we have never considered it a problem. certainly it'll slow you down significantly even as it approaches 45degrees (if for now other reason than redirecting fwd momentum into sideways momentum.)

Arlyn might comment here, I have been looking at his steering mod carefully, intent on purchasing one soon (maybe kids will kick in for one this christmas )

FYI, we can turn a pretty tight circle with the engine on the soft link and the rudder limited as is. We have frequently had to hold off while the engined croud buzz around the ramps, so we just burn air putting in a circle probably about 50-70' in diameter.
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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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Response Posted - 11/01/2007 :  15:39:27  Show Profile
My experience is that a rundder turned past 45 degrees is basically a brake and not an effective steering device. As long as the hard link does not restrict rudder movement then everything is honky dory.
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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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Response Posted - 11/01/2007 :  16:08:26  Show Profile  Visit delliottg's Homepage
You'd be surprised how useful a rudder can be when it's turned against it's locks with an engine attached to it. You can do some surprising pivoting in pretty tight quarters. Of course this usefulness is only at extremely low speeds, less than a knot. At anything above minimum steerage, you're correct, it's basically a brake that yaws you hard to one side.
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dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts
Response Posted - 11/01/2007 :  16:17:42  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Nautiduck</i>
<br />My experience is that a rudder turned past 45 degrees is basically a brake and not an effective steering device. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

When you are sailing, yes, but this thread is about manueverability under power.
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Nautiduck
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Response Posted - 11/01/2007 :  18:59:01  Show Profile
Maneuverability under power at slow speed is all about the outboard, not the rudder. That is why all these links in the first place, to steer the outboard once the rudder becomes just a hanging appendage off the transom.
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John Russell
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Response Posted - 11/01/2007 :  19:44:37  Show Profile
I'm not sure I agree. I hardly touch the motor while docking. I only turn the motor hard to starboard after my "Dock-o-matic" is securely in place and I've stopped in the slip. That keeps the aft close in so that I can easily secure it without leaving the boat.

I wonder if we've inadvertently uncovered a significant difference (dare I say advantage?)in the tiller v. wheel discussion? Also, I wonder if having the motor aft of the stern (on a mount) makes the difference.
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dlucier
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts
Response Posted - 11/01/2007 :  22:16:15  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Nautiduck</i>
<br />That is why all these links in the first place, to steer the outboard once the rudder becomes just a hanging appendage off the transom.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Actually, I use my rudder to turn the boat even when I'm at nearly a dead stop. It's called sculling and it's a technique I use quite often when coming in to the slip.
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johnsonp
Admiral

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Response Posted - 11/01/2007 :  22:48:35  Show Profile
<font color="blue"><font size="4"><font face="Comic Sans MS">I've used the tiller for sculling to come in to my slip for many years and works great.
Learned the technique when sailing an ElToro in the 60's plus we used to pump the main sail.
Also used this technique on man overboard drill.
Have not tried it on the C310 which has wheel steering.

paulj</font id="Comic Sans MS"></font id="size4"></font id="blue">
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delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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4479 Posts
Response Posted - 11/01/2007 :  23:10:15  Show Profile  Visit delliottg's Homepage
Sculling is one of the things that gets much harder to do with the hard link (and probably the soft link as well). On my San Juan, I'd just shut my engine off about 30 yards from the slip and I could make any corrections necessary by sculling, but it wouldn't occur to me to do that with our 250. I keep the engine running until we're tied up. However, my approach now is much more difficult in this slip than my old one on a basically motionless lake. And it changes with the tide, current & wind.
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britinusa
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5404 Posts
Response Posted - 11/12/2007 :  19:49:26  Show Profile  Visit britinusa's Homepage
Sea Trial Report:

Totally pleased with the performance of the V4 link. Turned out it was easy to connect and disconnect while underway. Once set we were able to forget about it. Worked a charm.

On the downside: The spring loaded pin that connects the connecting tube to the engine bracket is zinc coated, after 3 days, it's showing it's age! I'll have to look out for a stainless version of the pin.

So the only mods are:
a) replace the pin with a stainless version.
b) add a rubber grommet under the ring end of the pin: The pin vibrates and 'rings' against the connecting tube. A rubber grommet should stop that.

Totally pleased with the sea trials.

paul
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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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3704 Posts
Response Posted - 11/13/2007 :  14:36:17  Show Profile
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'll have to look out for a stainless version of the pin.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It's like music to my ears....

Thanks for the update!
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britinusa
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Response Posted - 11/13/2007 :  19:49:07  Show Profile  Visit britinusa's Homepage
Randy, do you have that link to the Stainless toy store? I also need 2 new T bolts (the backstay Tbolt bent last year but this weekend I stood on the stbd port side shroud turnbuckles and bent one of the Tbolts there too!)

I'm gradually replacing all the D-Shackles with quick shackles (the ones without a screwed pin but have a pin and indent)

Paul
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Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts
Response Posted - 11/13/2007 :  23:57:35  Show Profile
Here are the T bolts, don't ask how I know this.

[url="http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SiteSearchView?catalogId=10001&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&keyword=33+618&Ntt=33+618&N=377+710&y=0&x=0&storeId=10001&Ntk=Primary+Search&ddkey=SiteSearch"]Get the 5/16"[/url]

As for stainless hardware, what are you after? I have many sources.

[url="http://www.bosunsupplies.com/default.cfm"]Here's One[/url]

[url="http://www.marinepartdepot.com/"]Another Good One[/url]

[url="http://www.midwestcontrol.com/"]My Hard-Link Part Source![/url]

[url="http://www.fastenermart.com/"]Got The Shaft Collars Here[/url]

[url="http://www.onlinemetals.com/index.cfm"]Metal for Fabricating[/url]
Edited by - Nautiduck on 11/14/2007 00:16:14
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britinusa
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5404 Posts
Response Posted - 11/14/2007 :  05:43:41  Show Profile  Visit britinusa's Homepage
Droooooling!

Paul
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