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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

Catalina 250 Specific Forum

"Sailing for Geezers"

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AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Initially Posted - 09/09/2007 : 23:52:31

...the title of an article in September issue of SAIL magazine, page 94.
The writer has a mod suggestion for raising the main with 50% less effort. It involves rigging a two-part halyard block at the head of the sail. Only apparent downside, it requires twice the length of the existing halyard. That's a lot o' line to coil in the cockpit when the sail is raised. Question: for our 250's, is it a good mod for aging arms

Frank Farmer
Long Beach, CA
aa.diver@verizon.net
http://mysite.verizon.net/aa.diver

PRETTY PENNY
'01 C-250 WK, Hull #558

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2007 : 00:13:21

Frank, for the last 12 inches or so, I bring the halyard back to the starboard winch. My halyard runs through a block with cam cleats attached to the lower part of the mast. You could also use a rope clutch.

Another geezer trick for raising the keel could also be done with the winches. My idea is to attach a block somewhere aft that would pass a line connecting to the keel raising line. This new line would have some type of hook attachment for an easy connect/disconnect to the keel line.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 09/10/2007 00:33:53

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2007 : 06:44:30

Frank, on JD, we practically always use the stbd winch to raise the mainsail.. I say 'we' but of course I mean the royal we, as in 'me'!

Steve, your idea of the winch assisted keel haul is a good one too, but I still feel that it is a tackly issue.. will solve it eventually.

Paul

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2007 : 09:58:47

Steve & Paul,
You might be able to solve the tackle issue with an [url="http://www.rei.com/product/644068"]ascender [/url]to grab the line, and a [url="http://www.rei.com/product/471211?vcat=REI_SSHP_CLIMBING_TOC"]snatchblock [/url]to redirect it.

The Petzl ascender is fiddly to use, I'd look for a Gibb's ascender (which looks very much like the Petzl "Rescuescender" which you can see on REI's ascender page, but I couldn't easily find a link), which is a bit more expensive, but very straight forward to use, or go whole hog & get one of the more expensive Jumar types (I may be showing my age, not sure they even make Jumars anymore).

Also I just noticed that REI doesn't ship Petzl equipment out of the US, but that seems easy enough to get around for you Steve (there's an REI about 10 miles from here, and a post office down the road).

Edited by - delliottg on 09/10/2007 10:04:50

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5890 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2007 : 13:12:45

I always released the downhaul before raising the mainsail on my C25 tall rig. Then, the only effort needed to raise the sail is what is necessary to lift the weight of the sail itself. If I have enough strength to carry the sail in a sailbag, I have enough strength in my arms to pull it to the top of the mast and cleat it. The greatest effort involved in raising the mainsail is in tensioning it. Once the sail is aloft, I tension it by sitting on the boom, and then cleating the downhaul. I'm not sure whether the same method can be used on the C250.

Edited by - Steve Milby on 09/10/2007 13:16:04

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2007 : 14:06:30

When you have 75 year old arms, reducing the effort on ANYTHING is worthwhile, mates. Please check out the SAIL article and give me your thoughts on that mod.

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2007 : 14:29:42

I read the article too, Frank. I thought about the additional weight at the top of the sail as well as the additional line. I decided it probably wasn't worthwhile for me. I seeem to have problems with the last foot or less. For that, I use the winch when necessary. I've also noticed that momentum helps. I try to raise the sail as quickly I can. Yesterday, for example, I was dead into the wind and briskly raised the sails all the way with what seemed like less effort than I've used in the past. I was in a hurry to get under sail to get out of the way of somebody doing figure 8's at the entrance of the marina.

What did you think of the geezer's idea of headsail size? It sure would fit in to your self-tacking mod.

Steve, I'm not an engineer but, the weight aloft is compounded a bit by gravity as well as the rigging used to hoist it and then there's that little thing called friction, not to mention wind resistance. So, carrying the sail in a sailbag likely requires far less effort than hoisting it. My 250 doesn't have a downhaul on its fixed boom. I assume Frank's doesn't either.

Edited by - John Russell on 09/10/2007 14:32:56

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2007 : 17:11:51

Frank, My arms are 55 years of age and have shoulder and tennis elbow problems. So any way to give an assist, I am all for. But the 2 bigger problems I have are lowering and raising the anchor and putting on & removing my 6hp motor on my inflatable. Those are killers. Any help there?

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2007 : 17:22:50

Wasn't there something in that same article abut using the boom as a crane for such lifting chores?

Edited by - on

AADIVER
Admiral

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USA
966 Posts

Response Posted - 09/10/2007 : 23:49:31

"My 250 doesn't have a downhaul on its fixed boom. I assume Frank's doesn't either."

Yes, I have a downhaul/dousing line running from the first cringle from the head, down to a block at the foot of the mast, then aft to a cam cleat on the cabin top. I, too, use the starboard winch to raise the main, very carefully, dead into the wind due to my homemade lazy jacks and the tendency for the battens to snag on them; the only negative to jacks. And I agree adding twice the length to the main halyard ain't worth the trouble.

Edited by - on

Steve Milby
Past Commodore

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USA
5890 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2007 : 08:36:58

You might try having Sailkote dry lubricant sprayed in your mast track. I recently had it done, and it made it much easier to raise the mainsail. Before, an individual slide would find a sticking point. The Sailkote stopped all that.

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2007 : 08:52:44

I second Sailkote, it makes a big difference. I don't consider myself a geezer yet, but I have had my right shoulder rebuilt, and surgeries on my right elbow & wrist, so I'm definitely weaker than I used to be. I sort of swim in lazy circles now when I'm trying to go straight. Rita's fairly small so any advantages we can get to make raising & lowering our sails, mast, etc. are more than welcome.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2007 : 11:00:38

Seems like you're trading in a little pulling for a lotta aerobics with all that line to haul! You already have the mast supporting about half the weight of the sail while you're pulling the other half. That arrangement makes your pull about a third (not taking friction into account)--not that much of a reduction. Reducing the friction and winching the last foot or so is probably as good as anything.

As for anchors, I LOVE my windlass! ...with a roller designed specifically for the Delta. I lower and raise from the helm. All of my friends want one now!

(Sorry--I had to gloat about something.)

Edited by - on

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2007 : 11:09:41

How about this type of halyard setup. This would give the advantage of the purchase and keep down the weight aloft. Then the main is raised, the block ends up down at the bottom of the mast. Also, would avoid a line tied to the top of the mast.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2007 : 12:41:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by delliottg
 Also I just noticed that REI doesn't ship Petzl equipment out of the US, but that seems easy enough to get around for you Steve (there's an REI about 10 miles from here, and a post office down the road).
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

David, I appreciate the offer and may take you up on this sometime. Meanwhile I think I'm just going to keep things very simple with a line ending with a hook, block and bow loop at the end of the keel raising line. Store the setup under the seats when i'm done. Thanks though.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 09/11/2007 12:42:12

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2007 : 13:46:14

As for anchors, I LOVE my windlass! ...with a roller designed specifically for the Delta. I lower and raise from the helm. All of my friends want one now! (Sorry--I had to gloat about something.)

Dave, nothing wrong with a little gloating from time to time.
Hey do you have any pics of windlass up to helm and model no.
Thanks.

Edited by - on

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2007 : 15:44:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by piseas
 ...Hey do you have any pics of windlass up to helm and model no.
Thanks.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The windlass is a Lewmar Pro 700 (shown in the West catalog), with breaker and control switches on the instrument panel of my... ummmmm... 27' power boat. (That's why I apologized.) That and most other windlasses require a chain locker under them with a significant vertical drop for the rode. You'd have to modify the foredeck and probably give up a little bit of the v-berth to put one on a C-25. But for single-handing any boat, it's wonderful!

Edited by - on

barleyrooty
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2007 : 21:14:25

Musing out loud: Is it called a windlass 'cos you used to hire a "lass" to "wind" up the anchor?

OK I stopped my lazy musing and looked it up. For anyone who cares, it's a device for winding something around an "ass" (which I would be an ass to suggest could be construed the same way as above) which is a pole or beam. (From old norse / old english)

Edited by - barleyrooty on 09/11/2007 21:18:30

Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 09/11/2007 : 23:10:46

Well, that saved me a little time!

Edited by - on

piseas
Former Treasurer

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USA
2017 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2007 : 17:17:41

Expensive piece of "ass"!

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 09/12/2007 : 21:23:15

Oh, yeah, don't forget to loosen the jiffy reefing line before you try to winch up the last foot or so...

Don't ask.

Edited by - John Russell on 09/12/2007 21:23:55

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 09/13/2007 : 08:47:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">John Russell: Oh, yeah, don't forget to loosen the jiffy reefing line before you try to winch up the last foot or so...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hah, John, I know exactly what you mean...

Edited by - on

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