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Catalina/Capri 25/250 Sailor's Forums

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Boat blown off trailer

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khamburger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/29/2007 : 09:32:50

OK, so I already started a discussion of this asking for information on mast upgrades (since I'm going to have to replace the mast) at http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16095

Well, I have posted all the pictures I've taken in an album at http://www.users.qwest.net/~khamburger/Boat%20Accident/. I just took a bunch of pictures for insurance purposes and dumped them into an album, so most of them are pretty boring, but feel free to take a look.

Comments and feedback are welcome.

Keith

Keith Hamburger
250WB - Sailfish
Pueblo, CO

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2007 : 11:11:55

Keith,
This is a bit off topic, but can you tell me what load rating your trailer jack is? (last two pictures). I managed to bung mine up pretty badly the last time I launched and it needs to be replaced or repaired.

Edited by - on

Chris Z
Captain

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452 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2007 : 16:30:05

I replaced my welded in place jack with the one below. I would not go with anything less. I know that having a wheel is nice, but if you look at what happened to Keith's I would go with this one. It is rated for 2,500 lbs. I factored in the weight of the boat and trailer and figured I wanted something that could take a third of that and then some due to winds. on my boat that is about 1,800 lbs. the largest one I could find with a wheel was 1,500 lbs.

It runs about $90 through West Marine.

Edited by - Chris Z on 08/29/2007 16:38:56

khamburger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 08/29/2007 : 17:47:48

Well, I answered the question by email, but I guess I'll go from here. The jack on there is a 1000lb jack. Since the boat and trailer weigh less than 6000lbs, your tongue weight should never be over 600lbs. All of those ratings are for vertical lift, I don't think there's any ratings for side motion.

What caused my jack to break is the boat and trailer being blown some 15-20ft forward from where it was parked, and chocked, with the wind mostly abeam. That was followed by a strong enough crosswind to lift the boat (nearly 4000lbs with all my gear on it) and fling it some 8-10ft before it touched the ground. (if you look on the pictures of the starboard stern you will see some minor gelcoat scrapes. That's where the boat touched first, on the far side of the sidewalk some 6 ft from the trailer. And, it's fairly obvious the full weight of the boat didn't land there. The final resting point was another 3 or 4 feet from there.)

Without a wheel, I'm certain that even a jack rated at 1500lbs would be likely to suffer some damage. Possibly not quite complete failure as mine did, but there would have been nothing to give by rolling, either. As it was, the only real damage was at the swivel point on the swing back jack. The 1" diameter, grade 5 bolt was bent, the 3/16" thick fender washer was bent, as well as the plate that all of that went through.

Keith

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 07:02:36

keith, I think you understated the damage in both posts after looking at those pics.

Sorry to see your boat hurting so much. Who's doing the work or is it getting totalled as I'm sure the cost of repairs is much higher than you expected.

Paul.

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Dave Bristle
Master Marine Consultant

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Djibouti
10005 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 08:14:45

I had the 1500# dual-wheel jack, and I don't think the swivel was significantly different from yours.

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khamburger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 09:16:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 keith, I think you understated the damage in both posts after looking at those pics.

Sorry to see your boat hurting so much. Who's doing the work or is it getting totalled as I'm sure the cost of repairs is much higher than you expected.

Paul.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I haven't got an estimate yet, but I really doubt it is totalled. The most expensive part of the repairs, I'm sure, will be the mast itself. I'm not certain but I'm expecting in the $1500 range with shipping.

The most significant damage on the hull is just forward of the chainplates at the hull-deck joint. I expect they'll have to replace the whole rubrail and a 1-2ft section of the joint will have to be rebuilt. The port side window seperated inside but I think it looks worse than it actually is. Some debris from inside the fiberglass fell inside and is holding the break open. I think that just needs to be cleaned, refilled with some matt and resin and it will be pretty good.

The starboard settee will need to be retabbed and some stress cracks fixed. Also, there are a number of scratches in the gelcoat.

The boat didn't hit hard on the sidewalk, it appears to have just skimmed across leading to the scratches toward the stern. Where it hit was at that spot forward of the chainplates, and it appears to have landed in soft dirt directly on the hull-deck joint, probably one of the strongest places it could go. I think it hit there and flexed enough to pop the window loose, but, unless we find significant delamination throughout the fiberglass around there, it appears that most of the rest is cosmetic.

The joint there has strength in such an impact because of the way the lip is rolled. The settee below adds additionl rigidity and the galley just behind does the same. The cracks in the settee and the galley show where the hull was kept from flexing too much and they appear to be fairly minor. Obviously, I'm going to have the experts go in and see if the cracks run deeper than they appear and check for delamination around the point of impact, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Given totalled is probably around $15k, not counting the trailer and motor, I doubt it will run that high. But, we might find more, we'll just have to wait and see.

Keith

Edited by - on

khamburger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 12:27:38

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by khamburger
The most expensive part of the repairs, I'm sure, will be the mast itself. I'm not certain but I'm expecting in the $1500 range with shipping.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Well, looks like the mast might run as high as $2000. And, worse, no one has any masts available so there's no telling when I might be able to get one.

Looks like I'm not going to be sailing for a long time.

Keith

Edited by - on

barleyrooty
1st Mate

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64 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2007 : 06:42:31

Keith so sorry to read about your boat. Assuming you have a WB model (I don't see a wing keel), you should check the water ballast tank for leaks by filling it.

Good luck!

Phil

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2007 : 06:55:15

Keith, I would also inspect inside the cupboards and cabin/cockpit lockers for cracks where the bulkheads meet the hull. (Galley cupboard, port & stbd cabin lockers, under sink locker, cockpit lockers, fuel locker. And peek around the bilge area with a million candlelight.

It's practically impossible to inspect beneath the head or the cooler area unless you have a endoscope handy.

Also check the aft end of the galley where it meets the cabin liner.

Yes, in an earlier life I had a boat (plybuilt) that 'bounced' on it's side and found cracks in all sorts of places!

Paul

Edited by - on

khamburger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2007 : 08:42:19

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by britinusa
 Keith, I would also inspect inside the cupboards and cabin/cockpit lockers for cracks where the bulkheads meet the hull. (Galley cupboard, port & stbd cabin lockers, under sink locker, cockpit lockers, fuel locker. And peek around the bilge area with a million candlelight.

It's practically impossible to inspect beneath the head or the cooler area unless you have a endoscope handy.

Also check the aft end of the galley where it meets the cabin liner.

Yes, in an earlier life I had a boat (plybuilt) that 'bounced' on it's side and found cracks in all sorts of places!

Paul
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Yeah. There are cracks on either end of the galley. They look to be mostly superficial, but, they'll probably have to be ground out to know for sure. Also, cracks on the back of the settee.

As to the mention above about the ballast tank, I already had leaks in my ballast tank due to a hard grounding years ago. I've managed to get them drastically slowed, but, when I put the boat in, I'm going to put it in this morning and take things slow at the ramp to make sure that those cracks haven't opened up more. I expect launching today to take an hour or more.

I'm at the marina right now, slept in the parking lot last night. I probably should get to work making things ready for launch.

Keith

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2007 : 09:51:18

Keith,
Thanks for the email about your trailer jack. When I responded I got some sort of failure on your end.

As far as looking for damage, you also need to look on the opposite side of where it impacted. The impact stress would have traveled around the boat (think of all those simulations of asteroid impact you see on Discovery channel where the impact cloud travels in an ever widening circle till it finally encompasses the whole world). You may quite well have translated damage to the bulkheads etc. on the port side as well.

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 08/31/2007 : 23:50:15

You can make your own endoscope to inspect the boat. Use a web cam and a laptop.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 08/31/2007 23:50:34

britinusa
Web Editor

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5404 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2007 : 05:30:58

Good idea Steve, and perhaps ducttape an LED for illumination

Paul.

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Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2007 : 08:05:33

[/quote]

I haven't got an estimate yet, but I really doubt it is totalled. The most expensive part of the repairs, I'm sure, will be the mast itself. I'm not certain but I'm expecting in the $1500 range with shipping.

[/quote]

I would be very careful in talking with the insurance company about what you will accept. A friend at our marina followed the insurance companies advise and repaired his boat (it sunk when hit by lightening) and went through 1 1/2 years of no boat and no sailing. His boat was finally fixed, but the repairs where slow to happen and a constant battle with the insurance company. New damage was found and all they did was argue on repairs. I hope your experience is better. I would throw some time line milestones in the fray and tell them (insurance company) that your sailing time and use of the boat is worth something. Keep the repairs to a schedule. My friend could not get the fiberglass repair company to stay on a schedule. He did more waiting than anything. Not the insurance companies fault, but something he coulod have avoided if he set up the guidelines ahead of time. Just a thought.

Edited by - on

khamburger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 09/01/2007 : 08:43:23

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Turk
 

I would be very careful in talking with the insurance company about what you will accept. A friend at our marina followed the insurance companies advise and repaired his boat (it sunk when hit by lightening) and went through 1 1/2 years of no boat and no sailing. His boat was finally fixed, but the repairs where slow to happen and a constant battle with the insurance company. New damage was found and all they did was argue on repairs. I hope your experience is better. I would throw some time line milestones in the fray and tell them (insurance company) that your sailing time and use of the boat is worth something. Keep the repairs to a schedule. My friend could not get the fiberglass repair company to stay on a schedule. He did more waiting than anything. Not the insurance companies fault, but something he coulod have avoided if he set up the guidelines ahead of time. Just a thought.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

So far, all I've given the insurance company is a guess. I'm probably going to find the numbers for the various pieces of hardware that need to be replaced but the fiberglass is going to be done by the marina.

I put the boat back in the water yesterday and it appears as if I've even managed to fix an old leak in the ballast tank better than it was. I'm taking on less water now than I have in years. So, fixed the old leak and there don't appear to be any new ones.

The marina is planning to pull the boat into the shop on Wednesday and go over it and start working on an estimate. Now that there's no mast there's no need to pull it up on the trailer again. But, I'm just going to have the insurance work directly with the marina. And, while I can't sail without a mast, I can still get on the water, go fishing and such. At least the boat isn't completely unusable. Being a cruiser type sailor, I cn do most of the stuff I would, except I have to putter around instead of sailing.

As to damage on the other side of the boat, we've been through it quite closely. So far, no problems found. The boat landed right on the rub rail which seems to have flexed enough to pop a window loose but it doesn't appear to have transmitted much force around to the other side. If it had hit lower on the hull and flexed the ballast tank, I think things would have been a lot worse.

ALl things considered, I think we ended up quite lucky. The boat went over the sidewalk and missed the propane tank. If it had hit either of those, things would have been really bad.

Keith, the stickless stickboater.

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