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Mast upgrades

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khamburger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Initially Posted - 08/24/2007 : 14:16:35

Well, I got a phone call from the marina this morning and I guess I'll be spending more time around here and less time sailing for a bit.

We pulled the boat out and left it on the trailer for the marina to bottom pain it and the phone call this morning was that the boat had blown off the trailer. I'm waiting for my wife to get home so we can drive down and survey the damage but they have already told me the mast will need to be replaced ... So ...

Anyone done any upgrades on the mast I should consider or is the factory mast about the best I can do.

I'm open to suggestions.

Keith

Keith Hamburger
250WB - Sailfish
Pueblo, CO

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 14:41:32

I guess you meant that to say that they took the boat off the trailer to have it stand on it's keel to bottom paint it? They must've made a mistake when securing it. Can't imagine the wind it would take to actually blow it off the trailer.

I hope everything turns out well for you. If it's a WB make sure to have the WB tank tested since you may have internal damage.

Post pictures if you can.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 08/24/2007 15:05:40

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 16:54:38

I gotta agree with some skepticism about this. A boat such as the 250 if it has the bow eye secured by the trailer winch... isn't likely to blow off the trailer... it and the trailer might blow over together in winds exceeding 75 mph.

If the stern did blow off the trailer, there should be telltale signs of great strain on the bow eye such as twisted or a twisted shackle on the trailer winch.

Sounds a little like a story was concocted to PSOA.

I'd at the minimum do some inquires around the marina to establish that some extra ordinary winds existed. As to normal winds expected with summer storms, it seems to me that the marina would be liable to secure their work from those. A call to the National Weather Service might be of some help to obtain reports of significant weather.

Edited by - on

khamburger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 20:44:09

Well, the boat was just pulled out of the marina to the parking lot, so the bow eye wasn't hooked. But, it is a 250WB, even with the gear on it it's only about 4000lbs, max, on the trailer.

The marina ended up with two 1 inch cables snapped and docks buckled. They spent all day today repairing docks. The dock where are boat normally is still has a few curves in it. There was about 4" of hail and drifts of hail 3' or more. This afternoon, when I went down to check on the boat, there was still patches of hail on the ground in 90 degree temps. An early report (just a couple of hours after the storm hit) is at [url="http://www.chieftain.com/metro/1187939361/5"]Pueblo Chieftan[/url]

The trailer was moved about 20' and the jack on the front was broken. And, yes, I chocked the wheels before I left it. When I left the boat the trailer was parallel to the curb and backed up to the motorcycle trailer behind.

The big concern now is how much damage to the gelcoat I've got on the side that's down. I did get inside and there was nothing I saw poking through. The battery has dumped down somewhere in the back, don't know what that might have broken. Didn't smell any acid but there's no telling about that. The spreaders look good and all the rigging looks ok. The pulpit is bent and the mast is bent. That's all I can really see so far.

They're bringing in a crane and putting her back up on the trailer tomorrow. I'm going to try to head down tomorrow afternoon and survey the damage more completely. If we can get things cleaned up enough we might spend the night on the trailer and do some more on Sunday.

Keith

Edited by - khamburger on 08/24/2007 20:46:42

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 21:00:30

Chinook winds?? Or, do they just happen in the winter?

I read your other posts. Man! you need a rabbit's foot or something!

I wonder if you might want to inspect the CB and check for structural damage while it's still careened. Is there a way to test the structural integrity of the hull? It must have slammed pretty hard.

Edited by - John Russell on 08/24/2007 21:18:15

Arlyn Stewart
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
2980 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 21:24:43

A storm cell with enough altitude to produce that kind of hail can produce very high straight line winds exceeding 100 mph. It is now understandable why the boat left the trailer.

Is it also possible that the trailer got some momentum and then hit the curb and that threw the boat?

Edited by - on

johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 21:31:55

This will show past weather records.

http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=Pueblo+%2Cco

NWS is usually only forecasts ,hard to get records.

http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?site=pub&smap=1&textField1=38.25444&textField2=-104.60861

paulj

Edited by - on

britinusa
Web Editor

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USA
5404 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 21:56:41

Sorry to see that Pic, hope you guys are in a good place.
Sadly, I'm betting that you'll find stress cracks at least! Look for where any transverse bulkhead meets the hull. eg. under the galley sink, aft end of each cabin locker. I would pay attention to the areas on the port side where the galley bulkheads meet the hull.

Assuming the mast was up during the tumble, I would be concerned at the deck where the chainplates meet the shrouds and even the mast foot plate where it attaches to the deck. Both side are suseptable to strain in that event.

I see the furler sticking out by the gas tank, so also check the bow plate where the forestay attaches and if the backstay was connected, then check the deck plate by the ladder.

Where was the engine? Any chance that may have cracked around the hinges.
On JD, the original battery comparment would not allow the batter to fall out even if it were unstrapped and the boat inverted (no! I never tested that

Worse things happen at sea!

Paul

Edited by - on

khamburger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 21:57:47

First off, as to the rabbit's foot, I wonder if I don't just admit to more than others. Or, maybe I actually spend more time on the boat. So far this year I've probably got almost 1500 hrs spent on the boat. And, that's just weekends. Between 20 and 60 hrs, each weekend.

Looking at the weather records for the area, don't show the effects of this storm. But, for one example, last night, with the same storm system going through where we live, 40 miles away from the lake, we had severe hail damage at the north side of town, about 5 miles from us. People less than a mile from us had huge amounts of rain. At the same time all of this was happening, I didn't even notice the breeze picking up.

I did check out the centerboard, and there's no worse damage than I expected. The wakes from other boats have broken the bushings loose that I epoxied in when I hit the rock (see other post) and those need to be re-epoxied, but I was expecting that. I've had to do that every couple of years as it is to keep the board from banging.

I left the rudder on and expected it to be broken but it was barely scratched.

I never even posted about how I anchored out one night and came back the next morning to find my F350 4x4 in the lake up to the running boards after huge amounts of rain.

Or, the time I yelled at the guy about making a wake in the marina and he, and six of his buddies walked around the docks to kick my *s$. Turned out he had a warrant and when the rangers showed up they hauled him off to jail.

Guess I'm just made for adventure.

Keith

Edited by - on

Al
Captain

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USA
269 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 22:49:10

It's not clear from your post, but had you turned over your boat to the marina operators to paint the bottom, and parked it at their direction? If so, it would seem to me that it was under their control and it was their responsibility to keep it safe (whether their insurance considers a wind gust an "act of God" would be their problem, not yours...). But if you just hauled it out and parked it there, thinking you'd return in the morning to move it, that might be a harder sell.

As far as a better mast goes, is in-mast furling feasible for a 250? If so, I'd love it...

Good Luck...!

Edited by - on

Steve Blackburn
Master Marine Consultant

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Canada
1091 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 23:14:34

OMG! I never thought this could be possible! The wind had to be super concentrated or it was a mini tornado? Even if the boat would've been straped down to the trailer I guess the trailer would've turned with it? Who would've thought! A little more and the propane tank next to the boat could have blown up and make this a perfect disaster.

Still I have a hard time believe it for some reason. Wouldn't such winds turn over pickup trucks and cause great damage to the surounding buildings?

Keith I agree with you, it's just that you sail more than most of us and like me are open as to discussing past mistakes and resolutions. The way I see it, it's important to learn from each others mistakes and we just end up getting better. I really wish you better luck and hope things turn out well soon.

Edited by - Steve Blackburn on 08/24/2007 23:15:43

johnsonp
Admiral

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USA
606 Posts

Response Posted - 08/24/2007 : 23:37:12

As I recall the shipping almost costs as much as the mast, unless a truck is headed to your area from a Catalina factory.
Also the wait time is something else.
paulj

Edited by - on

khamburger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2007 : 09:21:35

Yes, to bring things onto the topic, the wait is the big thing I'm concerned about. That's the reason I was considering other options. The insurance will pay for the mast after the $500 dedictible, I'm sure. The crane to get the boat back on the trailer is going to make for a significant chunk of that.

I've been looking around at mast manufacturers and the extrusion on the 250 mast seems to be a bit odd. Approx 3" x 8" size. Fully rounded fore and aft and completely flat sides. If I could find that extrusion I could just have the marina transfer the mast hardware across and get back sailing, but I can't seem to find anything.

So, to the original question, any ideas on where I might look to alternatives to the factory for replacing the mast? It's looking more and more like I'm going to be out of the water for several months.

Keith

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2007 : 09:34:14

I googled "Spars" and found a few supplier/manufacturers. Might be worth contacting one or two of them directly. Although the sites I visited seemed to be for boats much bigger or much smaller than ours.

I feel for you after spending so many hours a week on the boat then suddenly going to zero. I hope this will resolve itself quickly. Best of luck with the hull inspection.

Edited by - on

Nautiduck
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3704 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2007 : 11:01:45

My sympathies to you and the Admiral. For me, I would want the factory mast. Maybe a call to Catalina would help in the procurement and shipping. I don't see why their shipping would be any slower than another vendor. Again, I feel for you. The photos are hard to look at. Keep us posted as to your findings and repairs. For us this is an opportuinty to learn more about the structural components of our craft.

Edited by - on

zebra50
Captain

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USA
408 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2007 : 11:30:00

Sorry about your misfortune. As an agent, I always advise my clients to turn in the claim and let the insurance company decide if the "other party" is at fault or has responsiblity. In this case, as Al mentioned, the marina may be on the hook for the entire repair and you wont have to pay any deductible. The possibility of hidden interior damage due to the boat falling on its side is a great possibility

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2007 : 11:33:13

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Nautiduck
 ... I don't see why their shipping would be any slower than another vendor. ... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

They will have to wait until it arrives from their vendor then ship it out. An extra step. In the world of Just-in-Time logistics, methinks Catalina won't have them warehoused. It's worth the call though. They might tell you their vendor. Who knows, maybe it's an aluminium extrusion company in Denver.

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2007 : 17:58:50

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by zebra50
 Sorry about your misfortune. As an agent, I always advise my clients to turn in the claim and let the insurance company decide if the "other party" is at fault or has responsiblity. In this case, as Al mentioned, the marina may be on the hook for the entire repair and you wont have to pay any deductible. The possibility of hidden interior damage due to the boat falling on its side is a great possibility
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good advise! Leave it to the insurance company. They will either pursue the issue with the marina or more and likely, just pay for your repairs. The way I see it, your probably in for a bit of a wait. May as well take advantage of the situation and do all the project you were "planning" to do last year

Edited by - on

Turk
Admiral

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USA
736 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2007 : 18:06:49

I have a question. Is your trailer the original brand from Catalina? It appears as the front starboard bunk broke or am I not seeing it right? (Do you refer to a boat trailer's right side . . . oh never mind) I am just wondering if the trailer fits the boat properly. I have a wing keel and my trailer is different. I have 6 pads that fit quite securely.

Edited by - on

RedRedWhine
Navigator

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USA
167 Posts

Response Posted - 08/25/2007 : 20:47:33

I don't know if this helps but I saw this mast for sale.

http://www.sailboatowners.com/gear/display.tpl?fno=300& gid=73327723354.98

Its at sailboatowners.com/gear.

Edited by - on

khamburger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2007 : 09:06:46

In regards to the trailer, yes, it is the factory trailer and I can't see any serious damage. The right side fender is bent down. I doubt I'll claim anything on that, just bend it back up.

The boat is back on the trailer and we're going through it, still haven't finished all that. The forward starboard window has seperated at the bottom and bits have dropped in and opened it up. The gap needs to be cleaned out and reglued. There's a lot of scratches in the gelcoat and a couple of small cracks in the hull that will need to be ground out and refilled.

The starboard settee has cracks in the gelcoat and probably needs to be retabbed underneath. There are some stress cracks in the back corner of the galley.

All in all, I don't think it's too bad. Probably some $3-4000. My biggest issue, still, is how long it's going to take to get a mast.

I'm still at the marina and forgot the cable for my camera so it will be later but I'll try to get some pictures posted.

Keith

Edited by - on

John Russell
Master Marine Consultant

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USA
3444 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2007 : 09:45:53

Can the fiberglass "de-laminate" from flexing enough to pop the window? I wonder if the glass might look OK but not be structurally sound. I can't imagine anyway to test for that. Would tapping it create the same kind of sound differences that a wet core might make?

Edited by - on

delliottg
Former Mainsheet C250 Tech Editor

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USA
4479 Posts

Response Posted - 08/26/2007 : 10:09:10

Keith,
You may try looking on Ebay for boats that were wrecked a couple of years ago in Katrina & Rita. The guys who snapped up all the derelict hulls may still have parts available. I would think they'd have gotten rid of the hulls themselves by now, but maybe not the masts, aluminum is valuable, fiberglass, not so much.

It's tough looking at your photos, I hope you're able to get back out & sailing soon.

Good luck,

Edited by - on

khamburger
1st Mate

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USA
35 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 12:32:30

Let's try to bump this topic again. Seems no one has a mast for the Catalina 25/250 (they appear to be the same based on the response I received from Kent Nelson). This is a great time to consider an upgrade of some sort.

Anyone have any ideas?

Keith

Edited by - on

Frank Hopper
Past Commodore

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Pitcairn Island
6776 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 12:55:50

J24 masts are probably available and would be a very similar extrusion.

Edited by - on

dlucier
Master Marine Consultant

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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
7583 Posts

Response Posted - 08/30/2007 : 12:58:22

[url="http://www.rigrite.com/A-Main/spar_M.html"]Rig Rite - Masts, Booms & Related Hardware[/url]

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